Carmelite priests and brothers

Specifically Discalced Carmelites :)
And also, I have questions about them, do they go out the monastery unlike the nuns? Do they always wear the habit? Do they have to stay in a monastery? Do they also abstain from meat like the nuns? And can you describe their spirituality?

Thanks! :)

[quote="jcian12, post:1, topic:230254"]
Specifically Discalced Carmelites :)
And also, I have questions about them, do they go out the monastery unlike the nuns? Do they always wear the habit? Do they have to stay in a monastery? Do they also abstain from meat like the nuns? And can you describe their spirituality?

Thanks! :)

[/quote]

Hello jcian12,

Yes, they "go out" since they are not monks or bound to observe the enclosure as the nuns are. Still, though, they would have part of their "monastery" that is part of the "cloister" and is not open to the public.

Always wear the habit? Literally, no. Some wear it nearly all the time they are out of their room or the shower. Others don't wear it as much. This will depend on the province since some are more "observant" in this regard than are others.

Generally, a friar is part of a community. This is typically called a monastery but, since they are not monks but are friars, it is more properly called a friary or convent.

There is usually meat served. It can be difficult, in some parts of the world, to not eat meat and I know that not all the nuns abstain. The Rule says the Carmelite is to eat what is placed before him. So, it can also depend on the donations a community receives.

Spirituality--that's a long story. A Catholic encyclopedia might give you a good start.

The Friars have a central website: discalcedcarmel.com/
The Nuns, since they are autonomous monasteries, do not have a centralized site.

Dan

If you truly are interested in that community, then contact one and ask your questions. They will be MORE than happy to answer them, and all of the other questions you likely have.

Unless one or more of us has been in this community, we can not really answer your questions well. We can give generalities, but not the depth that you likely would like to have.

Carmelites live in priories.

As for meat, it will depend on the province and even now do the priory.

I am a friar in the Order of Carmel, not the Discalced, but in most of our priories in my province we abstain from meat on Fridays. In the priory I live at right now we also abstain from meat on Wednesdays. Which is within the rule though not for the whole year which we do.

As friars (this would be the correct way to address any of the mendicant orders rather than priests and brothers) we all work outside of the priory.

I do not know about the Discalced but we in the Order of Carmel do have two groups of hermits within the United States.

There are many books on Carmelite Spirituality. Here are two that I found very good.

At the Fountain of Elijah: The Carmelite Tradition
The Carmelite Way: An Ancient Path for Today's Pilgrim

Also these can be very helpful.

The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross
The Collected Works of St. Teresa of Avila, Vol. 1, there are three volumes this is just the link to the first, you can search Amazon for the other two.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for your replies!
Also another question, what exactly is a Carmelite brother?
Thanks!

[quote="jcian12, post:5, topic:230254"]
Thank you for your replies!
Also another question, what exactly is a Carmelite brother?
Thanks!

[/quote]

There really is no such thing. Carmelites are friars. Some of them are ordained some are not.

Before Vatican II the Carmelites became a clerical order and they did call us the Carmelite Fathers, so the Carmelite Brothers would be the ones who did not get ordained to the priesthood.

After Vatican II we have been rediscovering our charism and restoring the idea of being a mendicant order. We have ordained members, priests and deacons, and non-ordained members, who are brothers. But rightfully we are all called friars.

All Carmelite friars are brothers, since that is what "friar" means. However, in current usage, a brother is a friar (or among cloistered orders like the Benedictines, a monk) who has not been ordained a priest. He can do anything that a priest can do except for performing exclusively clerical duties (i.e. the sacraments).

Thanks again for the replies, but I'm confused. So there is a "Priesthood" and a "brotherhood" on the Carmelite friars?
What exactly does a religious "brother" in Carmel mean if there are no Carmelite brothers? If they are simply awaiting their ordination, why do they have different qualifications on this site?
vocationministry.blogspot.com/
Are the "brothers" deacons?

Thank you!

[quote="jcian12, post:8, topic:230254"]
Thanks again for the replies, but I'm confused. So there is a "Priesthood" and a "brotherhood" on the Carmelite friars?
What exactly does a religious "brother" in Carmel mean if there are no Carmelite brothers? If they are simply awaiting their ordination, why do they have different qualifications on this site?
vocationministry.blogspot.com/
Are the "brothers" deacons?

Thank you!

[/quote]

Technically Carmelites are all friars whether ordained to the priesthood or not.

The title brother goes to those friars who are not ordained. There are non-ordained friars.

Most of us are studying for the priesthood but there are some who do not feel called to be ordained so they will stay un-ordained.

They have different qualifications because this group that the link goes to, the Discalced Carmelites have different requirements and education plans for those who will be ordained and those who will not.

In my province of the Order of Carmel all in formation get the Masters of Divinity degree whether or not they will be ordained. We are treated the same in formation in all ways.

You would need to contact that group to find out what difference they have.

I get it now. Thank you! :)

Another thing, why do Carmelites “change” their names?
ie. St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Jesus, St. Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face, etc.
Do the Carmelites themselves change their name or someone gives that name to them?

[quote="jcian12, post:11, topic:230254"]
Another thing, why do Carmelites "change" their names?
ie. St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Jesus, St. Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face, etc.
Do the Carmelites themselves change their name or someone gives that name to them?

[/quote]

This is for male religious.

In the Order of Carmel we do not change our names.

Some of the provinces of the Order of Discalced Carmelites add a title to their name such as "of the Cross" or such.

Part of the idea of a name change was that you were leaving your family for a new one. That is no longer how we look at it, at least in the O.Carm..

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