Catechism- reason for not leaving the Church- Is there slavation outside the Church?


#1

Please dont put this in the traditionalist section. I am not a traditionalist.
I saw on another thread that a Catholic was thinking of leaving t he Church. People gave reasons for not leaving: ‘Think of what you’ll be missing, Eucharist, Confession, Rosary, ect…’

But there didnt seem to be anyone mentioning that Catholics who leave the Church will be going to hell, because there is No Salvation for those who know that the Catholic Church is the True Faith, which is found in the Catechism:

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?[335] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.

Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336]

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Some mentioned that the person was ignorant of this truth. But how will they know if we dont tell them. Ignorance of a Catholic not knowing this seems to me to be willful ignorance.

What do you all think?


#2

I agree with you. Leaving the Church is a Mortal Sin. The sinner must repent and return to the Church for penance to be reconciled.


#3

HI, all
Romans. 11: 22-23, Remember God’s severity as well as his goodness; his severity to those who fell, and his goodnsss to you as long as you perserve in it; if not you will be cut off, and they if they do not persevere in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for it is within the power of God to graft them back again.

Peace, OneNow1


#4

Of couse they can be forgiven but if they continue in there state of separation they are on the wrong road. Would we ok sex outside of marriage because they can be forgiven? No. The seeking of forgiveness must first accept that they have sinned.


#5

Sooooo, the Orthodox Church since they broke of are all going to hell?


#6

Those who are current members…no, they were not responsible and have been born in ignorance. Those who made the initial decision have the greater liability.

Those who are members and knowingly leave the Church at risk.

(hint, hint) :thumbsup:


#7

So belief in the Savior is not enough, belief in the church is also needed?

I certainly dont believe the pope is the universal shepherd appointed by God. I am invincibly ignorant, nes pas?

My conscience is not condeming me, it certainly would be if I returned.


#8

The belief in Jesus Christ is more than just believing him. You have to believe in all that he has taught, no exception. He established a Church upon Peter, and the other 11 Apostles. He gave them authority, and their authority was handed down to the bishops of today. This Apostolic Succession continues today not only in the Catholic Church but in the Orthodox Church as well.

Since you left the Church because you disagree with her authority, you left the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth. You left the One True Church of Jesus Christ.

For this reason, you will be held accountible before God for your actions as to why you left the Church. Deciding where you will go in the next life is up to God himself. In my own opinion, I think you’ll probably end up in Purgatory for your pure hatred of the Catholic Church.


#9

Belief in the Savior is not just a formless belief which disregards truth or else many Atheistic Historians are Christians as they believe Christ existed, they believe in the person of Christ.

But, does truth matter.

Do we have to believe in what Jesus taught? Do we have to believe that He is God. Do we have to be obedient to His teachings. Or does it stop at a point at which we feel comfortable.

Some Atheists stop at believing that He existed but the gospels are just fanciful stories.

It goes from that to believing that He actually taught truth, He is God and that this truth can be known and must be adhered to today.

So either truth matters for God or we believe whatever we want to as it really doesn’t matter and you can believe what you want and still get to heaven. If truth doesn’t matter then anyone can believe anything and it doesn’t matter, everyone gets to heaven.

Either truth matters and there is one faith that comes from Jesus or it doesn’t and any faith is ok.

In Christ
Scylla


#10

Hi Napad,

Theoretically, a Catholic who leaves the Church is putting himself outside the Church of Christ and loses his salvation.

In practice, only God knows what is going on in someone’s mind and heart. Not even Judas is in hell for sure.

As a Christian, we do not judge, we only pray.

Verbum


#11

That certainly is not true. Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 16:30 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Apparently during Augustine’s time that was not what the church taught. “In Essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love”

Since you left the Church because you disagree with her authority, you left the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth. You left the One True Church of Jesus Christ.

Belief in, and submission to the “one true church” as defined today is clearly not a requirement for salvation. The RCC has usurped her authority and holds herself up as the Truth instead of holding up The Truth. Authority was always based on Fidelity to the Truth.

John 14:6 I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

For this reason, you will be held accountible before God for your actions as to why you left the Church. Deciding where you will go in the next life is up to God himself. In my own opinion, I think you’ll probably end up in Purgatory for your pure hatred of the Catholic Church.

Once Rome departed from the Gospel of Grace, it forfeited any claims to authority.

It is Rome that will be judged


#12

Conscience is supreme. The idea has got a bad name because of the contraception issue, with people who merely find the Church’s teaching inconvenient suddenly deciding that the conscience exemption applies to them.

However in the case of actually leaving the Church, generally claims of conscience are true and well-founded. People often need to spend sometime outside to realise why they really belong in the fold. As long as the leaving really is sincere and motivated by a desire to find the truth, we shouldn’t make silly threats of hellfire in attempt to scare these people into staying. However we should warn them that they cannot hope to do any lasting good outside of the Church, and of course we should be concerned.


#13

As St. Francis de Sales said, the truth must be simmered in charity untill it becomes sweet. Harsh warnings about hellfire usually do more harm than good in such instances (focus on Hell is good in other situations). The focus should be on how only in the Catholic Church can man truly find what his heart yearns for. :slight_smile:


#14

Of course, Rome has not departed from the Gospel of Grace so therefore you must believe it retains authority :slight_smile: .

From the Council of Trent:

CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.


#15

I wasnt meaning to say “your going to hell” in so many words but it should be made clear to them that they can not be saved until they can accept the Church again. Otherwise the dogma has no meaning whatsoever.
When people spout the Feeny position the augument back is that it is still a dogma but only for those who know the Church.

Now you are saying it is only dogma for those who can accept it in their conscience. This makes it a meaningless formular. And the obligation of ALL Catholics is to form their conscience to what the Church teaches, not the other way around.


#16

So the promise of Christ cannot be trusted when He tells us, “18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” and “19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Matthew 16:18-19 & 28:19-20)

I certainly dont believe the pope is the universal shepherd appointed by God.

Your loss…You have issues with authority?

I am invincibly ignorant, nes pas?

I doubt that.

My conscience is not condeming me, it certainly would be if I returned.

It will…


#17

closed #18

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