catechism


#1

Is the catechism a document that should be looked at so much in modern times since John Paul 2 now has been replaced by Benedict? I know a lot of papal documents are good but some are of different ranks.

Bill


#2

[quote="billcu1, post:1, topic:293367"]
Is the catechism a document that should be looked at so much in modern times since John Paul 2 now has been replaced by Benedict? I know a lot of papal documents are good but some are of different ranks.

Bill

[/quote]

YES!


#3

This may help some, atleast it's a place to start.

Quoted from website below:
"The text of the Catechism itself says: "This Catechism stresses the presentation of doctrine. Its aim is to aid in deepening the knowledge of the Faith. By doing so, it is meant to increase the maturity of the Faith, to root Faith in life, and to make it evident through personal witness.""

ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/NCOFCC.HTM


#4

Absolutely. After the Holy Bible, The Catechism of the Catholic Church is one of the most important and definitive works of our faith. It is periodically updated, but it's value has nothing to do with who is the reigning Pope. Oh, and FYI, Pope Benedict was the Cardinal (at the time) in charge of assembling the current version of the Catechism under Blessed John Paul II.


#5

Well this is the way I feel about the catechism. Say use this for an example. The catechism says that masterbation is a grave matter and meets all the requirements of mortal sin. I'm not arguing with that. But here's the thing. Someone is having problems somewhere and we aren't perfect like god. This is more complicated a situation then the catechism is leding us to believe. I really do think that needs a priest's touch. There are a lot of things that god views that we don't culpability for one thing and just to say this is wrong and that is wrong and so on without saying the "whys and wheres" just isn't right. I really think a priest should be involved. And definately some reconciliation.

Bill


#6

[quote="billcu1, post:5, topic:293367"]
Well this is the way I feel about the catechism. Say use this for an example. The catechism says that masterbation is a grave matter and meets all the requirements of mortal sin. I'm not arguing with that. But here's the thing. Someone is having problems somewhere and we aren't perfect like god. This is more complicated a situation then the catechism is leding us to believe. I really do think that needs a priest's touch. There are a lot of things that god views that we don't culpability for one thing and just to say this is wrong and that is wrong and so on without saying the "whys and wheres" just isn't right. I really think a priest should be involved. And definately some reconciliation.

Bill

[/quote]

Where does the Catechism say that a Priest and reconciliation are not needed? All it says about masterbation is that it is always grave matter. Whether the other two conditions of a mortal sin are met are not determined by the Catechism but by the Catholic and if you determine the other two requirements are met, you need to go to confession. If you are not sure, you need to consult your Priest. Sorry Bill, I am really lost about the issue you are really having.


#7

The Catechism is needed now maybe more than ever. In fact, I plan on diving into that after finishing a Bible reading plan I’m about halfway through.


#8

[quote="TheDoctor, post:6, topic:293367"]
Where does the Catechism say that a Priest and reconciliation are not needed? All it says about masterbation is that it is always grave matter. Whether the other two conditions of a mortal sin are met are not determined by the Catechism but by the Catholic and if you determine the other two requirements are met, you need to go to confession. If you are not sure, you need to consult your Priest. Sorry Bill, I am really lost about the issue you are really having.

[/quote]

I have never read the catechism though I've heard much about it. I am myself in a position right now that I no longer feel grace. I'm not quite sure what I've done. So I am staying away from the eucharist and will go to confession when I get the chance. I just might read it after all. Maybe I am judging unfairly.

Bill


#9

Just because some post sound like: Bible first and then catechism.

The sacred Tradition is as important as the Bible and the catechism is only one part of Tradition.

There are also older catechisms and they are also as useful. Only the ecumenical council and the texts of the pope can contain infallible statements. Also the Church fathers are very important.

However catechism is the first step for a real understanding of the Church, so it is VERY important. Also I think it is more useful to read the catechism before the Bible.


#10

[quote="billcu1, post:8, topic:293367"]
I have never read the catechism though I've heard much about it. I am myself in a position right now that I no longer feel grace. I'm not quite sure what I've done. So I am staying away from the eucharist and will go to confession when I get the chance. I just might read it after all. Maybe I am judging unfairly.

Bill

[/quote]

How are you going to know what the Church actually teaches unless you read the CCC. It contains the Church teachings (both infallible and non-infallible), and disciplines ALL of which bind Catholics, and the footnotes reference Scripture and other Church documents that underpin the teachings.
Ignorance of Church teachings is not bliss and does not get you off the hook for any sins of grave matter you have committed. If a Catholic does not learn the teachings of the Church through laziness or deliberate refusal they are held accountable for sins of grave matter even though they did not know they were sins of grave matter.
It is also pretty lame trying to say what should and shouldn't be done when you have no clue or basis for any argument.


#11

I basically go by what the parrish's religious education coordinator (now retired) says and what she taught in RCIA. I also ask alot of questions.

Bill


#12

[quote="billcu1, post:11, topic:293367"]
I basically go by what the parrish's religious education coordinator (now retired) says and what she taught in RCIA. I also ask alot of questions.

Bill

[/quote]

From your post #5 you need to read the CCC. What you think you know in that post is wrong.


#13

Bill - the Catechism is a fairly heavy duty book that is a worthwhile read, however if you are newer to the faith you may benefit more by starting out with the Compendium of the Catechism. It is a simplified "question and answer" version available for free on the Vatican website. Give it a look here:

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html


#14

[quote="TheDoctor, post:13, topic:293367"]
Bill - the Catechism is a fairly heavy duty book that is a worthwhile read, however if you are newer to the faith you may benefit more by starting out with the Compendium of the Catechism. It is a simplified "question and answer" version available for free on the Vatican website. Give it a look here:

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

[/quote]

Ok does the catechism say that saying four letter words **** is a sin. I know saying christ's name in vain is a sin. There are so many rules and Jesus came to free us from the law.

Bill


#15

[quote="billcu1, post:14, topic:293367"]
Ok does the catechism say that saying four letter words **** is a sin. I know saying christ's name in vain is a sin. There are so many rules and Jesus came to free us from the law.

Bill

[/quote]

That would be impractical because almost every four letter word in the English language is not a swear word.


#16

[quote="billcu1, post:14, topic:293367"]
Ok does the catechism say that saying four letter words **** is a sin. I know saying christ's name in vain is a sin. There are so many rules and Jesus came to free us from the law.

Bill

[/quote]

I assume you are referring to cuss words when you say "4-letter words". I wouldn't expect the Catechism to say they were sinful, because they really aren't. Think about it. Just saying the word aloud isn't sinful. It would be in your intent when you use them. Perhaps if you are using them to uncharitably describe someone, they could be considered sinful, but so would replacing the cuss word with one we didn't associate with being a "4 letter word".

Sure, they're crude and vulgar, but alone they are simply words.


#17

How is the catechism both fallible and infallible ? What decides which is which?


#18

[quote="billcu1, post:17, topic:293367"]
How is the catechism both fallible and infallible ? What decides which is which?

[/quote]

The Catechism is a collection of infallible teachings of the Church but not every word is infallible. Who decides? Christ's Church decides via it's teaching magisterium by virtue of the authority He gave it.

I would suggest you might want to work your way through either the beginning chapters of the compendium or the catechism as this will give you a good background.


#19

[quote="billcu1, post:14, topic:293367"]
Ok does the catechism say that saying four letter words **** is a sin. I know saying christ's name in vain is a sin. There are so many rules and Jesus came to free us from the law.

Bill

[/quote]

It depends on the situation. For example, banging your thumb with a hammer followed spontaneously by a four letter word is not a sin. Willfully calling your father a four letter word because he disagrees with your life choice is.

Through frequent examination of conscience and confession you will start to meld your mind to the mind of Christ and find that the willful use of foul language will decrease as Christ increases in you.

Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to free us from the law. The Church has rules, but any 2000 year old organization of 1 billion people is going to have a rule or two. More important than rules are the teachings the Church gives us to help us to walk with Christ.

If there is a particular rule or teaching you are having trouble with, perhaps, like me, it is because you don't understand what the Church teaches and why and need to learn more. Searching through the forums is a great place to delve deeper into these questions.


#20

[quote="billcu1, post:17, topic:293367"]
How is the catechism both fallible and infallible ? What decides which is which?

[/quote]

The CCC is neither infallible nor non-infallible but rather it contains a summary of infallible and non-infallible teachings.
It also does not really matter which teachings are which because Catholics are bound by both.


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