Catholic Apologists as Zionists?


#1

I was wondering if the people here at the CA forums believe that most conservative apologists are pro-Jewish Zionists and if so, why is that? Why are they?

I just found a website where a conservative apologist by the name of Shawn McIlhenny is criticized by a man who says that McIlhenny is a Zionist and that he has proof of Catholic apologists who have hidden that they’re Jewish and one is even part of the Mossad, and that he is going to expose them. I don’t know if its true, but McIlhenny comes across as more than a little concerned.

It’s here at lidless-eye.blogspot.com/


#2

Is Zionism a bad thing? Do we have an alternative to it? Should we allow Israel to be “wiped off the map”?

P.S. I’m asking these questions sincerely. I don’t mind if we disagree.


#3

It was a terrible idea to begin with, but we’re stuck with it now. The only ways to do with it are indeed as you say: stick with it or let them be wiped off the map. It’s pretty clear to me which option I am more happy with.


#4

The idea that the Jews still deserve the land in palestine by God’s promise doesn’t sound Catholic to me.

By I think the information at the link here sounds pretty wild about proving that a Catholic apologist is involved with Mossad.

lidless-eye.blogspot.com/


#5

Zionism is backed by Evangelical Christians mostly - who support the idea simply b/c they see it as ushering the Second Coming of Christ. I hate that any Catholic gets swept into such rubbish.

But I agree that the State of Israel is perhaps better than the alternative AT THIS POINT.

rusty


#6

I can’t say whether it was a good/bad idea re-establishing Israel. I don’t know the history of Israel. But here’s how I see it: who did what when doesn’t matter. If Muslims wanting to wipe Israel off the map amounts to an argument against Israel’s existence, Europe is in a lot of trouble, because Muslims would like to see Europe as theirs too.


#7

:o I get uncomfortable when I see that word thrown around. So many people use it as a cover for being against Jews.

My Jewish friends would probably consider themselves Zionists and all they mean by it is that they believe their country has a right to exist, where Jews can go and have a home.

I don’t see what the big deal is about that.


#8

Catholics are the true Israel. So if anyone deserves the land of Palestine, wouldn’t it be us?

Robert Sungenis has done a lot of work trying to expose what the Jewish Zionists are up to. And he gives proof that there’s a lot to worry about. They’re everywhere with their hands in everything.

Men like Robert Sungenis, Michael Hofmann, Michael Piper, E. Michael Jones and the Journal for Historical Review have a lot to say about these things. Have anyh of you ever read their works?


#9

But it’s not a matter of “who deserves”. You might well say us sinners deserve to die. Maybe we do. But that’s not entirely the question. The question is who Israel belongs to. Britian gave the land to the displaced Jews of WWII, therefore I think it should be theirs. That doesn’t mean Muslims can’t live there. But why should Jews be driven out? That’s ultimately what many want to see happen.

I don’t know who Robert Sungenis is, but it’s a lie to say Jews are “everywhere with their hands on everything”. There’s been more than enough evidence to disprove the theory “Jews own the media”.

If you’re curious of the part Jews play in the Second Coming, I would recommend you read Roy Schoeman’s article on the Ignatius Press blog.
ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/rschoeman_seccoming_jan06.asp


#10

Weston–

I read the link you gave at–
lidless-eye.blogspot.com/
to the letter about supposed conspiracies and blowing the lid off apollogists who are hiding the fact that their Zionists–Jews, Mossad agents…

You will excuse me if I wait to see the evidence. And after seeing the kind of people you trust about Jews–Robert Sungenis-- I have real trouble believing this will be as advertised.

You should read

  1. www.sungenisandthejews.com

  2. lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=242

  3. lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=237 and

  4. lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=251

before you treat him like a Jewish expert or soemthing. He’s a guy with an agenda against Jews.

About Israel, do you say that we should going to give back the U.S. southwest to the Mexicans or other areas to American Indians? What about all the other countries that stole there lands or killed to get them? Why so worried jsut about the tiny little area of Israel?


#11

Zionism is about making the Jews into people who take the place of Christ and who want to take over the world. The want to take over all the Arab countries and make Israel like it was in the days of King Solomon.

If they are going to do that, they have to have their hands in everything and maybe that’s what they are doing, get their hands into everything and control us.

Sungenis gives a lot of evidence about all this and I don’t see anything wrong with it. The Journal of Historical Review is another authority that has an incredible amount of information about these things too. Did you ever think these people are just trying to warn us about what the Jews are up to? Maybe we should be watching out for this because the antichrist might come out of all of it. Hate for Christ should make people paying attention.


#12

After blasting the West and the United Nations during his speech at the U.N. General Assembly in New York, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad went on to once again call for the return of the Hidden Imam, also known as the Mahdi – Maitreya—the Islamic messiah who can only come into the world when chaos and bloodshed reign, and, according to Muslim beliefs, whose coming will herald the apocalypse.

I guess Islam did not get the note: HE LIVES IN LONDON

Mysteries of Maitreya
Benjamin Creme, tonight’s guest, first began presenting messages from Maitreya, the “World Teacher,” in public forums in 1977. He says that Maitreya had spent the last 2,000 years in a “body of light” at a retreat in the Himalayas, but has now resurrected in a physical form that he “self-created” and that he lives and works in London. Many of Maitreya’s messages are based around the idea of sharing and global cooperation.
According to Creme, Maitreya has the ability to appear and disappear at will, and has in fact materialized in gatherings around the world, where he takes on the form of a Messianic figure recognizable to that culture. Most notable was his appearance in Nairobi, Kenya in 1988 where he was said to be identified as “the Christ” in front of 6,000 people. There has been speculation, particularly among certain guests on Coast that Maitreya is actually the Antichrist. In fact, Kathleen Keating said he appeared suddenly in her backyard wearing a pony tail and an Armani suit. Creme believes the Antichrist is an energy rather than a person, and that it has already come and gone in the form of Hitler and his associates.
One of the most startling claims about Maitreya concerns what has been called “The Day of Declaration.” According to Creme’s affiliated website, shareintl.org,“Maitreya will be invited to speak to the entire world via the linked television satellite networks…We will see his face on television, but he will not actually speak. Instead, each of us will hear his words telepathically in our own language as he simultaneously impresses the minds of all humanity. Even those who are not watching Maitreya on television will have this experience. His energy of love will enter the hearts of all, galvanizing humanity to save the world.”
“They are ignorant, misinformed, and afraid,” Creme said of those who claim that Maitreya is the Antichrist. “They have never experienced his love and his humanity,” he continued. According to Creme, Maitreya is waiting to make himself known at the proper time, which he believes may be when the developed world has a major economic collapse. It’s “the only thing that will bring humanity face to face with reality…a burst in their economic security,” Creme said. It is the giant gap between the haves and have nots that urgently needs to be redressed in our world, Creme pointed out. This total lack of balance he states causes the “inability to see the world as one.”

regimechangeiran.blogspot.com/2006_01_01_regimechangeiran_archive.html
coasttocoastam.com/guests/115.html


#13

Then read:

Book Review: Never Revoked By God by Jacob Michael
Article Review: Devil Talk: Is the Gospel of John Anti-Semitic? by Mark P. Shea

To understand the kind of disinformation Robert Sungenis is being attacked for trying to expose. Most of what are on those pieces linked by Augustine22 are related to some errors Robert made 4 years ago and already admitted. Note that there is very little effort spent to factually challenge what Robert says, rather a lot of innuendo.

Note that Jacob Michael is one of the main attackers of Robert Sungenis, calling him incompetent to write on the Jews. Take a look at Robert’s book review and decide for yourself who has the more competence.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com


#14

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
For the 2005 documentary film by Marc Levin about antisemitism in the United States in the wake of 9-11, see Protocols of Zion (film)
1992 Russian edition of the Protocols, adapting Eliphas Levi’s portrayal of Baphomet.The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Russian: “Протоколы сионских мудрецов” or “Сионские протоколы”) is a text published in the Russian Empire in the early 20th century that purports to describe a plan to achieve world domination by Jews.

Numerous independent investigations[1] have repeatedly proven it to be a hoax by Okhranka, the tsarist secret police; most notably, a series of articles printed in The Times of London in 1921 revealed that much of the material in the Protocols was plagiarized from earlier political satire that did not have an antisemitic theme. Since the Protocols appeared, its earliest publishers have offered vague and often contradictory testimony detailing how they obtained their copy of the rumored original manuscript.[2] Nevertheless, some people continue to view the Protocols as evidence of a conspiracy, especially in parts of the world where antisemitism is widespread. It is also frequently quoted and reprinted by antisemites, and is sometimes used as evidence of a Jewish conspiracy, especially in the Middle East.[3]

The Protocols are widely considered to be the beginning of contemporary conspiracy theory literature,[4] and take the form of an instruction manual to a new member of the “Elders,” describing how they will run the world through control of the media and finance, and replace the traditional social order with one based on mass manipulation


#15

Mark Wyatt–

First isnt that a lot of baloney about Sungenis’ apollogy? Wheres the apology and proof he took all this stuff back? Give the proof. I asked you for proof before and you don’t give it you just keep saying what you say like thats enough. I read that Mr. Sungenis was asked for this many times and he never gave anything that I have ever seen. One of the links proves the only thing Mr. Sungenis was sorry about was that he upset some people with Nazi stuff but he still stuck by everything he said. Here it is–

Sungenis–“The only reason it (the article of Sept 2002) went through some “revisions” is that when this whole thing first started I was trying to be accommodating to those who were levying their charges. I took off some material that some people found offensive, even though I still stood by the material (and no one has proven it wrong).”

Second thats a load of baloney about all the problematical stuff he wrote being 4 years old. And even if it was, like 4 years is so long ago? The stuff is horrible. The guy just keeps up with this stuff more and more even now. But most everything at sungenisandthejews was in the past couple of yhears. Theres a ton of links tostuff he wrote and put up much more recent that 4 years. You act like you read it and if you did you would know that.

Walt Disney was smart for not hiring Jews? JFK was killed by Jews? Jewish Catholics are nefarious and perinicious heretics? Jews brought the holocaust on themselves? Jews are violent and think gentiels are less than animals? 95% Jews despise Jesus? EWTN and Catholic Answers are fronts for Zionism?

All Sungenis and all not long ago.

Third why would anyone argue with White Surpremecists, Neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers and make them look worth the time? You don’t argue with bigots it just makes them look legitamate. The guy even made up a bogus quote from Einstien saying that the charge of antisemitism was only a “ploy” as he put it or he stole it from people like White Surpremecists or neo-nazis.

What else does a person need? Does ne need to start wearing a swastika before theres a problem for you?

And he does this under the name Catholic. It is NOT CATHOLIC and its shameful. And that you defend it is offensive.

Wes Grant–

Why not you read up about the Journal of Historical Review before recommending them? Those people are holocaust deniers and the people behind them were neo-nazis. Read-- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Not that that mattered to Sungenis who thinks their a great source of information.

Hoffman (not Hofmann) is like that, too. Another Holocaust denier.


#16

Zionism is about making the Jews into people who take the place of Christ and who want to take over the world. The want to take over all the Arab countries and make Israel like it was in the days of King Solomon.

Zionism has nothing to do with world domination. Islam, on the other hand, has everything to do with world domination.

If they are going to do that, they have to have their hands in everything and maybe that’s what they are doing, get their hands into everything and control us.

Where are these Jews with their “hands into everything”? I don’t mean to be rhetorical, but I think you ought to back up your claim.

Sungenis gives a lot of evidence about all this and I don’t see anything wrong with it. The Journal of Historical Review is another authority that has an incredible amount of information about these things too. Did you ever think these people are just trying to warn us about what the Jews are up to? Maybe we should be watching out for this because the antichrist might come out of all of it. Hate for Christ should make people paying attention.

Please read the article in my last post. The Jews still have a role to play in salvation history. The anti-Christ may indeed end up a Jew, but that’s irrelevant. We don’t know who he’ll be. I think you go too far when you suggest Jews hate Christ. Most Jews have yet to be introduced to Christ. Roy Schoeman, a Jewish-Catholic convert, says the best thing a Catholic can do for a Jew is introduce him to Christ. So many Jews would embrace Christ if they only knew him.


#17

Where are these Jews with their “hands into everything”? I don’t mean to be rhetorical, but I think you ought to back up your claim.

Well…I’m not saying it’s true…but they certainly react oddly to the accusation.

I mean…I’d love to say the Church has her hands in everything. That she could still sway kings and topple dynasties. That would make me proud and inspired.

Also, if you present most Jews with an accusation that “Jews have a conspiracy to control the world”…they don’t react as an innocent person would react.

If someone said, “Catholics control world banking and politics”…I’d say, “I doubt it, but some of them might. The important thing is I’M not involved. The actions of some Catholics are not my actions. Duh.”

But if you say to the Jews, “Look at the protocols of the elders of zion”…they will immediately deny its veracity. Now, it almost certainly IS a fake. BUT the defense of an innocent man is not, “That’s not true.” But rather, “Whether it’s true or not, I personally am not involved…so don’t put me in that group.”

It’s like a murder trial. You’d expect an innocent man to say, “Well, I didn’t commit the murder”…but instead, it seems as if the Jews use the defense “No murder even ever happened.”

Instead of saying, as I think is the obvious response, “You can’t class us all in one group. Some Jews may be trying to take over the world. I doubt it and think it’s a silly idea, but I’M not involved, don’t make the Jews a monolithic group.”

But they don’t say, “Whether or not there is a conspiracy, I am not involved.” Rather, they deny the entire conspiracy…seeming to imply that IF there was a conspiracy, they take it for granted that they WOULD be involved…and since they aren’t, there is no conspiracy.

So I dont think there is a conspiracy…but it’s an interesting mentality…to try to deny the whole charge…instead of just saying that they personally are innocent whether or not other Jews are involved in such a thing.

Their cultural identification is definitely too strong.


#18

How many Jews do you know and how many have you made the accusation to? You treat Jews like they are one big block in that.:frowning:

Why do you say most Jews? Have you asked them?

Don’t you think many minorities act this way? When someone who is not in the minority singles you out about something like this, I think I can understand why they may be defensive of their people.

I don’t think it’s like that at all. At a murder trial its just about one person that has nothing to do with if the person is Jewish. The things you mention about Jews are about Jews as people.

Where are all these Jewish people who do what you say here to the point where you treat them all as one block? I don’ t know these Jews and there are a lot of them in my neighborhood.

I must say that if I were a Catholic in a Muslim country I would not feel the same about the kinds of things you say if they were about Catholics. And even in our own country, there we have people that defend Catholics against people who don’t like us because we’re Catholic like Bill Donohoe at the Catholic League.

I must say that the level of insensitivity is amazing.


#19

And the Jews who deny the whole charge agree with you that there is not a conspiracy. If someone said Catholics were secretly controlling all the world governments and that they were behind every war, would you say this was ridiculous and deny the whole charge, or would you say, “Well, maybe it’s true, but I’m not part of it?”

Their cultural identification is definitely too strong.

Just like in the Old Testament.


#20

Amen!


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