Catholic but not Marian

I am Catholic, convinced of the ancient faith and loyal to the historic church and the primacy of Peter. However, I am not Marian and do not see a Scriptural basis for so much of the “co mediatrix” Marianism that I seem to have foisted upon me as a Catholic. I am not against Mary but, like any saint, think she should be seen as a potential intercessor rather than as a surrogate to Jesus. As a man, I also cannot really relate to Mary per se though I do admire and respect her enormously.

I have seen reports from WYD that Pope Francis even says “rely on Mary” when it should be “rely on Jesus”.

Am I wrong to feel this way?

Thanks for all assistance.

Mary is to be compared to the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark was made of the finest materials, covered in gold. It contained the Tablets of the Ten Commandments, Josephs rod which blossomed, the Jar of Manna. The Ark was overshadowed by the Holy Presence. Mary was pure as gold, carried the Word of God made flesh , married to a Joseph, and her Son gave us the Bread of life or Manna which came down from Heaven. The Holy Spirit over shadowed her! She was given this unique role by her choice and Gods. Could a Israelite be Jewish and not respect the Ark?

You seem to be treading on thin ice, toeing a fine line. I am not expert enough to render judgement to your beliefs so far, but I do think you should begin to reexamine your motivations (whatever they may be) and your positions, because this could be Satan trying to draw you in to heresy (or not).

I have never seen a Catholic define Mary as a surrogate to Jesus. The most common prayer to Mary is “Pray for us”, ie it is an intercessory prayer.

Perhaps your feelings reflect a lack of understanding.

“No Mary, No Jesus,” Mother Theresa of Calcutta.

Also, another saint, I believe St. Alphonus ligouri but I may be wrong said, “The Holy Spirit does not act, except through Mary.”

Get that!

Read this and it may help you.

davidmacd.com/catholic/mary_in_the_bible.htm

There is a scriptural basis for the veneration of the Blessed Mother. I will give you some examples.

An angel of God paid tribute to her.
Luke 2
28 And coming to her, he [the angel] said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
29 But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.
30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. …"

The Blessed Mother interceded for others during the wedding feast at Cana.

John 2
3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
4 [And] Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.”
5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you."

Jesus gave us his Blessed Mother when He was on the Cross.

John 19:26
When Jesus saw his mother* and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.”

We will never be led astray in our devotion to the Blessed Mother. She is your Mother and the Mother of us all. She understands our concerns and always carries them to her Son. She always points to Our Lord Jesus. Her message is: Do whatever He tells you.

She is the Mother of God and a gift to the Church.

Mary as the Ark of the Covenant

This video may help you understand the premise around which Mary is venerated as the highest of the saints. Veneration & adoration of Mary, as with all other saints, and as with our friends and family in this present life, always makes us stronger in loving God. If we do not love each other, we do not love God.

It’s true that sometimes men can have a harder time connecting with her than women, and that is not entirely to be unexpected. You shouldn’t be put off by that though; just think of it as a reason to go deeper with it.

Read about Mary and pray with an open heart.

Some are “more” Marian than others.

You are absolutely right to rely on Jesus…which is not to say that Mary cannot aid you in your pursuit of His graces. Her role is to lead you to Him.

I was raised a Baptist and was received into the the Catholic Church in 1990. At first, I didn’t quite know how to deal with Marian devotion. It seemed very foreign to me. But eventually, I grew to love her as my Heavenly Mother.

Here’s another Scripture regarding Blessed Mother’s role in the early Church.

Acts 1
13 When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.
14 All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

The followers of Jesus prayed with Mary, and they were all of one accord. The Blessed Mother unites us. She loves you more than you could ever know. :slight_smile:

No you are not wrong to feel this way. I would describe it as more “incomplete”…but them most of us are incomplete in our understanding of these things. :shrug:
Take your time and learn…Grow in faith and the Spirit will Lead you to understand better and more fully. As long as you feel these things are “foisted” upon you…this will be a wall preventing full understanding. So - pray as is comfortable to you and make use of the various links and insights others have and will offer.

God Bless you on your journey.

Peace
James

Thank you for most of the responses.

Amen Amen!:thumbsup:

check out www(dot)scripturecatholic(dot)com and scroll down to the index. Click on the part that says Scriptures/Fathers and from there find the four sections (all conveniently categorized for accessibility) on the Blessed Mother. They will provide you with a literal mountain of Scriptural proof promoting the Blessed Mother the same way the Catholic Church does and on top of that, they will also provide an additional mountain of writings from the Early Church Fathers/Early Christians saying, in their own words, the same thing. The Early Church Fathers, as we know, predating the Bible by centuries. The Bible definitely does speak volumes on the Virgin Mary and her role as Queen of Heaven :slight_smile: Happy searching and God Bless!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Your use of the word “foisted” seems to indicate you have made up your mind and have dug in your heels. I would suggest you take down your guard, and be open to what the early Church Fathers had to say about this. We have had 2,000 years to get used to these ideas and still we balk. The early Christians would have been far more resistant to such radical new concepts “foisted” upon them by the Apostles and yet they embraced them. Maybe they knew something we don’t.

Here’s a video i like that summarizes a lot:

youtube.com/watch?v=Kkj_MN7Tnu0

It will take you through

[LIST]
*]Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant
*]Mary as the new Eve
*]Mary as the Queen Mother
[/LIST]

Psalms 132:8 was a trip for me.

Also, it has mysterious music playing in the background so you know it’s true.

Truly impressive video clip.

This video is beautiful and inspiring. Thank you for sharing it. :slight_smile:

By Divine plan here’s how the NT story of our redemprion and salvation begins. Mary says yes to God to be the mother of His son who will be made flesh from Mary. The mediator who brings about our redemption and salvation comes through His mother Mary…by Divine design. The mediator coming through the mediatrix.

[LEFT][FONT=ArialMT]Joyful Mysteries (How our NT salvation and redemption began)[/FONT][/LEFT]

[LIST=1]
*][FONT=ArialMT]THE ANNUNCIATION[/FONT]
*][LEFT][FONT=ArialMT]THE VISITATION[/FONT][/LEFT]
*][LEFT][FONT=ArialMT]THE NATIVITY[/FONT][/LEFT]
*][LEFT][FONT=ArialMT]THE PRESENTATION[/FONT][/LEFT]
*][LEFT][FONT=ArialMT]THE FINDING OF THE CHILD JESUS IN THE TEMPLE[/FONT][/LEFT]
[/LIST]By Jesus our mediator coming to us through Mary His mother, that makes Mary mediatrix by definition.

The prefix “co” in co-mediatrix, in Latin, means “with”, it does NOT mean equal to, or in place of.

Mary is NOT a surrogate in anyway to Jesus. Jesus is her son and she is His mother forever more…

In the big picture

If we are children of God through Jesus then we are all his brothers and sisters. In extension, that means we are all Mary’s children also. In Our case we are adopted into the family, but family members just the same. Since Mary is OUR mother too, we are to

Mt 15:4 **Honor **your Father and Mother

In the Greek, Honor = τιμάω = [FONT=Trebuchet MS]timaō[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS]definition[/FONT]

  1. to estimate, fix the value
    a) for the value of something belonging to one’s self
  2. to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerate

Venerate: definition

1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

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