Catholic but not pro-intercession


#1

Since I have to keep this short, let me just give you a quick background: I’m always been a catholic, and will never think of changing my religion. I believe on Virgin Mary, I believe that she was the Mother of God and Mother of the Church, I believe on Immaculate Conception and Perpetual Virginity and her Assumption. However, I see that the love for Mary makes people say things that are not correct (“If you don’t pray to Mary, you’re not catholic”,”Mary is the most perfect human being after Christ”), in regards to the second statement, the Bible says that there was no one like John the Baptist neither will be someone like him.
I believe I have the right to honor her but not ask for her intercession; I have the right to express my faith and conviction focusing more on the Holy Trinity. I am not against teaching our kids about these traditions, and I pray with my family a mystery of the Rosary a couple of times per month. In summary, I believe that I have the right to not pray for her intercession, so my question is: Is there anything on the Catechism that confirms/denies this right? Thanks you very much


#2

Im pretty sure your okay. Im only 15, but… if you keep all of the commandments and follow laws of church, we should all be hunkey dory. :thumbsup:

I dont like it either when people add onto truth

( I pray to Mary to though. Every night, just to ask for intercession and stuff. im not against praying to her or anything. )


#3

Hi and welcome to CAF.

It is wonderful that your family prays the Rosary. The Church doesn’t say you are not Catholic if you are not asking Her for help.

Do you believe in the intercession? I believe you do.

Whether you are asking Our Lady to help you or not, She is still praying for you. What a mother wouldn’t do if not praying for her children - That is Love - Mother Mary is Mother of God and our Mother as you said.

Regarding John the Baptist - there is no one like Mother Mary either. Could you find one like Her?


#4

Here is the link to vatican CCC.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

I was going to copy and paste but its probably too long for this thread.

Go to chapter 3 article 9 or just type in Mary on your finder(control F) to find all the reading where Mary is mentioned.

God Bless your day!


#5

The constant witness of the Church, East and West, confirms the Blessed Mother’s exalted status above all others save her Son who is God Incarnate. She was immaculately conceived; John was not.

The Church invokes the intercession of the Blessed Mother in her liturgy and in the writings of her saints throughout her history.

For the Church to be wrong on this would be most serious; but Jesus said the gated of hell would not prevail against her.

I think you need to go with the Church on this one.


#6

there is nothing in the Catechism or elsewhere in Catholic teaching and tradition that says you are required to pray to Mary for her intercession, or that you are required to pray the rosary or any other marian prayers. they are private prayers in any case, and how you pray in private is up to you. there is a vast legacy of Catholic spirituality to draw upon, from lectio divina (prayer with scripture) to praying in tongues, so you will find a way that meets your needs.

As you rightly point out we are required to affirm defined doctrine about Mary. My prediction is that anyone who studies that doctrine more deeply will come naturally to prayer with Mary, in much the same way that a newlywed as she comes to know her mother-in-law better, develops a friendship with her, comes to depend upon her and ask her help especially in how to make her son happy.


#7

Welcome to CAF. :slight_smile:

The Church does teach that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the most perfect human being after Jesus Christ, so don’t base your inclination not to seek her intercession on your own erroneous understanding on this point or on your understanding of the Lord’s words in the Gospel of Matthew.

And regarding John the Baptist, the Lord’s meaning In Matthew 11:11 has to do with the Old Covenant vs. the New, for, in the very next verse He says how “the least in the Kingdom of Heaven [that is, the New Covenant] is greater than him [John].” Mary is part of that New Covenant, and the greatest member of this New Covenant. She is the very image of the Church (per Rev. 12:1-3) and the Ark of the New Covenant itself (per Luke 1:39-56 compared to 2 Sam. 6:2-11). Thus, Jesus is not saying that John is greater than Mary or any other NT saint, but that he is the greatest and most sinless saint of the Old Covenant - the last prophet of the Old Covenant, and their culmination: the New Elijah.


#8

Thanks everyone for your answers it really has shed light on me. I didn’t want to get a discussion between who’s greater between John and Mary, I wanted to know if I have a right not to ask for her intercession and I think I got the clarification I needed. I am amazed that I can get feedback (and learn) from 15 year olds and for scholars, thanks again!


#9

The more you understand about Her role, the more you would want go to Her for help.


#10

In the Confiteor at Mass you pray-

*I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God. *

So I guess you do ask for the intercession of Mary. Of course you are not required to ask for her intercession during the private prayers that you offer up. Everybody prays differently because everyone has a different relationship with God. When we come together as Church we offer up the same prayers because we are one body and that includes asking for the help of the Church Triumphant in Heaven and its Glorious Queen Mary.


#11

I don’t really pray to the saints or Mary either. I feel no need to. I don’t feel that my faith is somehow less whole for doing so, nor do I ever get the compulsion to change my ways. I used to try and pray the Rosary frequently, but, honestly, never felt that it was doing my spiritual life any especial good. Neither did I ever feel like I was growing in my faith by praying to the saints for intercession. God calls us to him in a myriad of different ways. I don’t think intercession is required to have a happy or fulfilling spiritual life.


#12

Yes, we say this at mass. :slight_smile:
We pray for others everyday and those people might come to know God without them knowing who had been praying for them. In the same way, some think they don’t need Virgin Mary and the Saints pray for them because they don’t see the benefit. They might not need to pray ask them, but we will be surprised to find out that the Saints have been praying for all of our spiritual lives.

So, whether one is praying for Mother Mary and the Saints for their intercession, the Saints are praying for them because others ask the Saints to do so…and the Saints also do pray without being asked - because they Love us - they dont’ need to wait for us to ask them to pray for us.


#13

I thought one had to at least believe in the communion of saints to be a catholic. It’s in the creed. I guess not doing it, well- I don’t know if that is wrong or not but I am under the impression one must believe in the communion of saints. So, my next thought is, if one does believe in the communion of saints, then what bad can come from it? And, if you are not “getting” anything out of it, is that a reason to not only not do it, but to tell everyone else proudly you don’t? Doesn’t that create scandal?:confused:
What if mass itself becomes something you don’t feel you are “getting” anything out of spiritually? Do you just stop?
So, if you are a catholic you do have the right to pray for intercession not just from Mary but any of the saints…
How can a catholic say they dont have the right to ask Mary for intercession? The right to do that is built in with the creed.


#14

I have had trouble developing a relationship with Mary, and don’t know why, other than Satan trying to interfere with me growing close to Mary. I am very good at memorizing, but when I tried to put this short prayer to memory (Come Holy Spririt. Come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse) I was having all sorts of trouble. I kept trying and have now memorized it and say it often. It must be important if Satan was interfering that much.

God bless.


#15

I think the issue is not whether or not the OP has the right to ask for intercession, but the right not to. I don’t think he was trying to proudly tell us that he doesn’t pray to the saints, but to ask if he were doing something wrong by not doing so.
But comparing the mass and praying to saints is not quite an accurate comparison. Mass attendance is required by Church law and, therefore, our personal view of it is rather a moot point. Asking the saints for intercession, on the other hand, is not a required practice. We believe that they intercede for us, yes, but it’s not law that we must ask for that intercession. It’s a personal spiritual practice.


#16

We invoke the intercession of the Saints through the Liturgy of the Mass to which we unreservedly give our consent. That means we believe in it. We may not find it helpful in our private prayer lives and are not obliged to involve the Communion of Saints in our pilgrimage outside of the Eucharist, but remember the Eucharist is the source and summit of Christian life.


#17

I think the OP is on target. He is denying no tenet of the faith but is not engaging in optional devotion. That is acceptable. We all are on a faith journey and if the OP is not at a point in his life where Marian devotion is a big deal, he can still be a Catholic in good standing. I was there myself for a year of two.


#18

OTOH, They said they did not have the “right” to ask for Mary’s intercession. Also denied that the BVM is the most perfect of creatures. That needed correcting.


#19

I will only add what others may have stated more succinctly, that if you reject the entire notion of intercessory prayers to Mary and the saints, you also reject a number of prayers of the Mass including the Confiteor and Eucharistic prayer I, which is quite a different matter than the rosary, and that you cannot do and remain Catholic.


#20

This is me (the OP, which by the way, don’t know what stands for) :slight_smile: I want to say that I’ve learned a lot from this, I want to clarify that I acknowledge intercession and I agree with the statement that if someone is against it, that someone can’t be catholic. My question has been answered, I asked the question not to make sure I was right (or to feel proud about it) but to know more about my religion and more about the catechism. Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming!


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