Catholic Cardinal says we no longer need Jesus


#1

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999

Potential Pope Declares Jesus Is NotThe Only Way!

Cardinal Francis Arinze, who’s considered a possible successor to Pope John Paul II, has denied Jesus is the only way to heaven. In a recent interview the pope’s spirited 66 year-old deputy for outreach to other religions was asked, “So was Jesus wrong when he said he was the way, the truth and the life?” Arinze responed, “If a person were to push what you said a little further and say that if you’re not a Christian you’re not going to heaven, we’d regard that person as a fundamentalist…and theologically wrong. I met in Pakistan a Muslim. He had a wonderful concept of the Koran. We were like two twins that had known one another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man’s wisdom. I think that man will go to heaven. There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in Japan. This man, a good man, open, listening, humble–I was amazed. I listened to his works of wisdom and said to myself, 'The grace of God is working in this man.” The interviewer then repeated the question, “So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?” “Expressly, yes [he laughs with the audience].” (Dallas Morning News, 3/20/99) Read John 14:6 and Acts 4:12

Council of Trent 1545-1564

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

So let me get this straight, anyone can get to heaven and we don’t need Jesus to get there. I am anathema (damned or condemned) because I cant swallow transubstantiation, no pun intended.

To anyone who relies upon the RCC for salvation know this. John 14:5-6 says “5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me


#2

[quote=excatholic]Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999

Potential Pope Declares Jesus Is NotThe Only Way!

Cardinal Francis Arinze, who’s considered a possible successor to Pope John Paul II, has denied Jesus is the only way to heaven. In a recent interview the pope’s spirited 66 year-old deputy for outreach to other religions was asked, “So was Jesus wrong when he said he was the way, the truth and the life?” Arinze responed, “If a person were to push what you said a little further and say that if you’re not a Christian you’re not going to heaven, we’d regard that person as a fundamentalist…and theologically wrong. I met in Pakistan a Muslim. He had a wonderful concept of the Koran. We were like two twins that had known one another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man’s wisdom. I think that man will go to heaven. There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in Japan. This man, a good man, open, listening, humble–I was amazed. I listened to his works of wisdom and said to myself, 'The grace of God is working in this man.” The interviewer then repeated the question, “So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?” “Expressly, yes [he laughs with the audience].” (Dallas Morning News, 3/20/99) Read John 14:6 and Acts 4:12

Council of Trent 1545-1564

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

So let me get this straight, anyone can get to heaven and we don’t need Jesus to get there. I am anathema (damned or condemned) because I cant swallow transubstantiation, no pun intended.

To anyone who relies upon the RCC for salvation know this. John 14:5-6 says “5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”<o:p></o:p>

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.<o:p></o:p>

[/quote]

Please! That headline is misleading. Where did you get that article, might I ask?


#3

Dallas morning news


#4

Did you join this forum today to show how you don’t understand what the Cardinal means, and you want to know…

Or did you join to “have fun” and not really care what the answer is?

Or did some one else send you with this old sturff.

By the way, The Cardinal is theologically correct! Before you post again, take a few minutes and think about figures of the Old Testament who you think are in heaven…and tell me if they knew about Jesus?


#5

[quote=excatholic]Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999

Potential Pope Declares Jesus Is NotThe Only Way!

Cardinal Francis Arinze, who’s considered a possible successor to Pope John Paul II, has denied Jesus is the only way to heaven. In a recent interview the pope’s spirited 66 year-old deputy for outreach to other religions was asked, “So was Jesus wrong when he said he was the way, the truth and the life?” Arinze responed, “If a person were to push what you said a little further and say that if you’re not a Christian you’re not going to heaven, we’d regard that person as a fundamentalist…and theologically wrong. I met in Pakistan a Muslim. He had a wonderful concept of the Koran. We were like two twins that had known one another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man’s wisdom. I think that man will go to heaven. There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in Japan. This man, a good man, open, listening, humble–I was amazed. I listened to his works of wisdom and said to myself, 'The grace of God is working in this man.” The interviewer then repeated the question, “So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?” “Expressly, yes [he laughs with the audience].” (Dallas Morning News, 3/20/99) Read John 14:6 and Acts 4:12

Council of Trent 1545-1564

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

So let me get this straight, anyone can get to heaven and we don’t need Jesus to get there. I am anathema (damned or condemned) because I cant swallow transubstantiation, no pun intended.

To anyone who relies upon the RCC for salvation know this. John 14:5-6 says “5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me
[/quote]

Acutally, I think the pun was intended.

The Cardinal said that the grace of God was working on that man. No one can seek to do what is right or seek the divine unless the grace of God draw that person. It may not be sanctifying grace, but it is grace.

I may not have the facts exactly straight, but I think the Council of Trent was addressing those Christians who denied the Church’s teaching on the Eucharist.

Jesus told his disciples in Luke 10:16, “He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

St. John says, in his first epistle "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. " 4:6

If you want to follow Jesus, the Way, Truth and Life, follow His Church.


#6

why do we have two posts going on the same question??

not another “Bush Wins” I hope… the poster who went crazy the other day.


#7

[quote=excatholic]Dallas morning news
[/quote]

Was **Read John 14:6 and Acts 4:12 **included in the article in the Dallas Morning News?


#8

This supposed article is an urban legend started by the Seventh-Day Adventists. The real article from the Dallas Morning News is printed in the next post below. Notice that it is very different from the SDA version. Cardinal Arinze posits that everyone should be Christian. In fact he says that everyone who finds the fullnes of truth will become a Christian. Those who never have the opportunity to know Jesus but nonetheless seek God with a sincere and open heart can still be saved by means known only to God. This is right in line with the Catechism.
Paul


#9

The Dallas Morning News

March 20, 1999

"If God himself gave freedom"
Cardinal Arinze says force has no place in faith matters

By Brooks Egerton Staff Writer of The Dallas Morning News
Published March 20, 1999
Click here to go back to results.
What is the point of interfaith dialogue? Are there hidden agendas of conversion? Does respect for other religions mean that one is as good as another? Is there more than one way to heaven?

Such questions arose again and again at last weekend’s Thanksgiving World Assembly, an international gathering of religious leaders in downtown Dallas. They came into particularly sharp focus during a small-group discussion led by Cardinal Francis Arinze, who’s considered a possible successor to Pope John Paul II.

Cardinal Arinze, the pope’s spirited 66-year-old deputy for outreach to other religions, was born into a Nigerian tribal faith and converted to Roman Catholicism at age 9. He served as a priest, bishop and archbishop in his home country before being called to the Vatican in the mid-1980s.

He has traveled the world since then, meeting everyone from Anglicans to Zoroastrians, winning friends if not necessarily converts. His style is frank and nonbureaucratic; many who met him in Dallas saw both confidence and humility, along with repeated flashes of humor.

Following are excerpts of last weekend’s discussion, which began with California Episcopal Bishop William Swing – who’s trying to form a sort of United Nations for religions – seeking the cardinal’s views on conversion and proselytizing.

Cardinal Arinze: "The word [proselytizing] at one time was used in a good sense … but gradually I think it has a connotation which is no longer acceptable. [That is] when it means to try to win another person over to my faith by methods that are unworthy of the human person, or methods that are unjust, which is the same, or methods that exploit the difficulties of another – like, ‘If you join my religion, I’ll give you a scholarship in the university. If you join my religion, I’ll give you rice to eat.’ In one country in Africa, ‘If you join our religion, we’ll give you relief supplies; if you do not, you starve and die.’ And it still happens. …

"The principle it violates is the principle of respect for religious freedom, that every human being should have the freedom … to worship God in this way or that. **Not because we believe that one religion is as good as another – no ** – but because we believe that the human person should be inviolable, should not be violated. If God himself gave us freedom and he allowed us to use it even to the extent of offending him, who are we to use force on another in matters religious? …

"**Although I, for instance, would want everybody to be a Catholic in the world – everybody – I can only propose it. I should not try to impose it. … If everybody wants to become a Catholic, very good. The pope will close the department where I’m working ** [audience laughter] … but is that about to happen? There’s no sign of it. So once you allow human freedom, you must allow people to have two religions, or three, or four, or 200, not because you want a supermarket of religions but because the human person has freedom. … "

Continued…


#10

Dr. Joseph B. Tyson, professor emeritus of religious studies at Southern Methodist University and chairman of the Thanks-Giving Square chapel committee: " … There are certain elements within Christianity which would say Jews are rejected of God because of the rejection of Jesus, because of the belief of their participation in the death of Jesus. I know there have been some dialogues between Jews and Christians in which Christians have been forced to change – forced by persuasion to change their views on that subject simply by listening to the impact of that view on some Jews."

Cardinal Arinze: "The Christians were compelled not to change their faith but to get a clearer understanding of their faith. … By discussing with Jews and reflecting, they realized they had not understood very well their own tradition. …

"St. Paul the Apostle, even though he was a great theologian, didn’t condemn slavery as such. But now we realize that slavery should be condemned as such. It was not so clear at that time. Even in the Catholic Church we do not hold that we have the clearest idea on every point. … We can grow in our understanding. …

"When people meet in interreligious dialogue, the end isn’t to convince the other person to cross over to my religion. If that is the end, it is not interreligious dialogue. It is a debate, or an argument, friendly or otherwise.

"On the other hand, we hold that people who meet in interreligious discussion and reflection should be open to conversion in another sense – conversion to God, in the sense of openness to God; that is, the action of God in us. After all, religion is not what we achieve in our Catholic belief; it is merely what God works in us if only we will allow him. … "

Dr. Tyson: "It seems to me that one of the barriers to interreligious dialogue, at least on the Christian side, is the kind of exclusivistic claim – that in fact if you don’t believe in Jesus Christ, you will not be in the right with God. … "

Cardinal Arinze: "[A document from the Second Vatican Council] says that God’s grant of salvation includes not only Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus and people of good will. That is, a person can be saved, can attain salvation, but on condition that the person is open to God’s action. … "

Robert Ashley, news director at Dallas radio station KHVN-AM (970): “So was Jesus wrong when he said he was the way, the truth and the life?”

**Cardinal Arinze: "He was right. He is the way, the truth and the life. If you believe that you will become a Christian ** [audience laughter]. … Only God knows to what extent a person is sincere, what opportunities the person got and how the person used those opportunities. Only God can assess all that, and he never appointed any of us part of his advisory council [more laughter]. …

"If a person were to push what you said a little further and say that if you’re not a Christian you’re not going to heaven, we’d regard that person as a fundamentalist … and theologically wrong. …

"It is quite another matter to say that one religion is as good as another. That is, it doesn’t matter to what religion you belong, you can believe in this or that. … Religion is not put together that way, [in which] you change the rules and change the goalposts if you can’t score. No, no, no. … [But we also] believe that as every religion has elements that are true and noble and good. …

"How will it work out? I can’t tell you. But we know that Christ, who says, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life,’ died on the cross for everyone. But not everyone has equal opportunity to know about him."

Continued…


#11

Sister Maureen, a London-based representative of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization: "I’m amazed. I’m amazed. … "

Cardinal Arinze: "You thought I was a fundamentalist [he laughs] …

"I met in one place in Pakistan a Muslim [who] lived alone, and people would go to him. … He had a wonderful concept of the Koran. … We were like two twins that had known one another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man’s wisdom. I think that man will go to heaven. But I am not the one who opens the door [audience laughter]. …

"There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in Japan. … This man, a good man, open, listening, humble – I was amazed. I listened to his words of wisdom and said to myself, ‘The grace of God is working in this man.’

"I noticed that the more they were devoted to their religion and I to my religion, the more we met one another even though I didn’t know their language. … There is a language of the heart. Even a dog knows those that love it. So if you meet a person, if both of you are devoted to God, both of you will be nearer to one another than two professors of two religions who don’t practice what they teach but can elucubrate from morning till evening. … "

Mr. Ashley: “So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?”

Cardinal Arinze: “Expressly, yes [he laughs with the audience].”


#12

Maybe the 7th day poster (or whatever he may be) will take time to read the whole article… then take it back to his source and question them. Not likely though.


#13

Thank you, Paul, for that. It is a beautiful article.


#14

[quote=excatholic]Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999

Potential Pope Declares Jesus Is NotThe Only Way!

Cardinal Francis Arinze, who’s considered a possible successor to Pope John Paul II, has denied Jesus is the only way to heaven. In a recent interview the pope’s spirited 66 year-old deputy for outreach to other religions was asked, “So was Jesus wrong when he said he was the way, the truth and the life?” Arinze responed, “If a person were to push what you said a little further and say that if you’re not a Christian you’re not going to heaven, we’d regard that person as a fundamentalist…and theologically wrong. I met in Pakistan a Muslim. He had a wonderful concept of the Koran. We were like two twins that had known one another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man’s wisdom. I think that man will go to heaven. There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in Japan. This man, a good man, open, listening, humble–I was amazed. I listened to his works of wisdom and said to myself, 'The grace of God is working in this man.” The interviewer then repeated the question, “So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?” “Expressly, yes [he laughs with the audience].” (Dallas Morning News, 3/20/99) Read John 14:6 and Acts 4:12

Council of Trent 1545-1564

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

So let me get this straight, anyone can get to heaven and we don’t need Jesus to get there. I am anathema (damned or condemned) because I cant swallow transubstantiation, no pun intended.

To anyone who relies upon the RCC for salvation know this. John 14:5-6 says “5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me
[/quote]

This is an extremely dishonest article you posted. Look at Paul’s posts.


#15

Dear Ex-Catholic,

I am going to assume that you really thought the article you posted was genuine. So I don’t accuse you of dishonesty. But I do suggest that you are grossly naive.

If something sounds this far off the mark, you should suspect that the person is being mis-quoted. I have seen Cardinal Arinze interviewed on EWTN more than once, and have always been impressed by his passionate love of Jesus and his concern for the salvation of all people. As soon as I saw the text you posted, I knew it was a scam.

This incident should give you a clue about the character of people like the SDAs and other professional anti-Catholics. Next time, don’t be taken in by their lies and propaganda. Just because it appears on a web site, that doesn’t make it true.
Grace to you, my friend.
Paul


#16

[quote=MrS]Did you join this forum today to show how you don’t understand what the Cardinal means, and you want to know…

Or did you join to “have fun” and not really care what the answer is?

Or did some one else send you with this old sturff.

By the way, The Cardinal is theologically correct! Before you post again, take a few minutes and think about figures of the Old Testament who you think are in heaven…and tell me if they knew about Jesus?
[/quote]

The Old Testament prophets and saints went to heaven when Jesus freed them from Abraham’ bosom. Eph.4: 8 Therefore He says:“When He ascended on high He led captivity captive And gave gifts to men.” 9 Now this, “He ascended”–what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things. No one gets to heaven without Jesus. John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Now then either Jesus is a Liar heaven for bid, or your Cardinal is wrong.


#17

[quote=PaulDupre]Dear Ex-Catholic,

I am going to assume that you really thought the article you posted was genuine. So I don’t accuse you of dishonesty. But I do suggest that you are grossly naive.

If something sounds this far off the mark, you should suspect that the person is being mis-quoted. I have seen Cardinal Arinze interviewed on EWTN more than once, and have always been impressed by his passionate love of Jesus and his concern for the salvation of all people. As soon as I saw the text you posted, I knew it was a scam.

This incident should give you a clue about the character of people like the SDAs and other professional anti-Catholics. Next time, don’t be taken in by their lies and propaganda. Just because it appears on a web site, that doesn’t make it true.
Grace to you, my friend.
Paul
[/quote]

Check it out for your self I assure you it is genuine.


#18

Let’s ask a moderator to eliminate the other post on this same topic… otherwise our new member will be giving wrong answers twice… once is bad enough.

Moderator???


#19

[quote=excatholic]Check it out for your self I assure you it is genuine.
[/quote]

Read Pauls posts. They show how bad the one you showed was.


#20

[quote=ICXCNIKA]Acutally, I think the pun was intended.

The Cardinal said that the grace of God was working on that man. No one can seek to do what is right or seek the divine unless the grace of God draw that person. It may not be sanctifying grace, but it is grace.

I may not have the facts exactly straight, but I think the Council of Trent was addressing those Christians who denied the Church’s teaching on the Eucharist.

Jesus told his disciples in Luke 10:16, “He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

St. John says, in his first epistle "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. " 4:6

If you want to follow Jesus, the Way, Truth and Life, follow His Church.
[/quote]

The Old Testament prophets and saints went to heaven when Jesus freed them from Abraham’ bosom. Eph.4: 8 Therefore He says:“When He ascended on high He led captivity captive And gave gifts to men.” 9 Now this, “He ascended”–what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things. No one gets to heaven without Jesus. John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Now then either Jesus is a Liar heaven for bid, or your Cardinal is wrong.


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