Catholic Church prohibitted regular folks from reading the bible and even put them to death for doing so

This can’t be correct …

the Counsel of Toulouse 1229 AD by Pope Gregory IX who banned the reading of the Bible by the common man and limited to Latin only and only by the Monks and Priests. There is well documented history of persecution of the people who literally gave their lives simply to bring the Bible to England in the tongue of the common man. Tyndale died at the stake, his crime, translating the NT into English.

greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

… Can anyone offer some supporting references to rebuke this? Thanks in advance.

It is true.The church fear the average person would misinperate the meaning of the text. Martin Luther was one the first to translate the bible to the people's language. One thing the protestant reformation was about.

You're saying they put people to death for doing this? Under what grounds?

[quote="Sir_Knight, post:1, topic:211371"]
This can't be correct ... ... Can anyone offer some supporting references to rebuke this? Thanks in advance.

[/quote]

HUMMM Just a few of my thoughts. I would need Catholic proof that people were put to death for reading the bible. I also thought that bible translators like Wycliffe and Tyndale were put to death because they were spouting their own heresy and leading Catholics astray.

Again--these are just my thoughts
Jeanne

Ancient history! The church is old and yes there was a dark time for the church..The modern day Catholic church is nothing like the old...Concentrate on your relationship with the Lord in the here and now and forget about ancient history.
Peace
Dan

[quote="JeanneH, post:4, topic:211371"]
HUMMM Just a few of my thoughts. I would need Catholic proof that people were put to death for reading the bible. I also thought that bible translators like Wycliffe and Tyndale were put to death because they were spouting their own heresy and leading Catholics astray.

Again--these are just my thoughts
Jeanne

[/quote]

You would need to see Catholic proof that people were put to death for reading the Bible? That is like saying you would need United States government proof that 9/11 was an inside job to believe it. Obviously Catholic sources are going to be a bit biased. Even in the past few years there have been cover ups for the priest scandal, but you expect them to be truthful about putting people to death for reading the bible 800 years ago?

[quote="juliamca, post:2, topic:211371"]
Martin Luther was one the first to translate the bible to the people's language. One thing the protestant reformation was about.

[/quote]

Unless Martin Luther could speak Italian and publish a book 12 years before he was born, this statement is false. The Malermi Bible was published in Italian in 1471. Luther was born in 1483.

A lot of these assertions come from misreading things like the Council of Trent's prohibitions on unauthorized or inaccurate bibles, and there were plenty of them. Nowhere do they condemn an authentic collection of Scriptures. Later, in the 1800s, other Popes spoke about "not reading" Bibles, but that was in response to a Bible Society that used what were essentially Protestant texts under the guise of studying "the" Bible. Some of these contained footnotes that questioned Catholic doctrine and the Pope at the time was cautioning Catholics to be aware that they were not sitting down with a Church approved Bible to study.

As to the claim of killing people for reading the Bible... I'd want to see the proof of that.

Henry the 8th put Tyndale to death.

[quote="DOShea, post:7, topic:211371"]
Unless Martin Luther could speak Italian and publish a book 12 years before he was born, this statement is false. The Malermi Bible was published in Italian in 1471. Luther was born in 1483.

[/quote]

Re-read what you quoted. It said that Luther was "ONE OF THE FIRST." As in not THE first.

[quote="juliamca, post:2, topic:211371"]
It is true.The church fear the average person would misinperate the meaning of the text. Martin Luther was one the first to translate the bible to the people's language. One thing the protestant reformation was about.

[/quote]

The Chruch never discouraged peopole from reading the bible, Certain very poorly translated bibles yes, but not the bible in general.

Chuck

That’s not true at all.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_translations_of_the_Bible

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Bible_translations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Historiale

The ‘‘regular folks’’ as the OP puts it, would have been illiterate in both Latin and the vernacular. It doesn’t matter if they were banned from reading it. It would be like banning a deaf man from listening to a conversation.

Yeah, I would need rock-solid proof (and NOT from Wiki, lol) of this before believing it.

And your logic doesn’t apply to the historical interpretations of say secular humanists for what reason?

Chuck

[quote="juliamca, post:2, topic:211371"]
It is true.The church fear the average person would misinperate the meaning of the text. Martin Luther was one the first to translate the bible to the people's language. One thing the protestant reformation was about.

[/quote]

The move to translate Sacred Scripture from Latin to the vernacular was really instigated by William Tyndale. The instances of vernacular translations leading to heresy began in the 1200's because of the Cathar heresy (also known as the Albagensians).

[quote="Sir_Knight, post:1, topic:211371"]
This can't be correct ... ... Can anyone offer some supporting references to rebuke this? Thanks in advance.

[/quote]

"But there is another possibility, and that is Toulouse, France, where a council was held in 1229. And, yes, that council dealt with the Bible. It was organized in reaction to the Albigensian or Catharist heresy, which held that there are two gods and that marriage is evil because all matter (and thus physical flesh) is evil. From this the heretics concluded that fornication could be no sin, and they even encouraged suicide among their members. In order to promulgate their sect, the Albigensians published an inaccurate translation of the Bible in the vernacular language (rather like the Jehovah’s Witnesses of today publishing their severely flawed New World Translation of the Bible, which has been deliberately mistranslated to support the sect’s claims). Had it been an accurate translation, the Church would not have been concerned. Vernacular versions had been appearing for centuries. But what came from the hands of the Albigensians was an adulterated Bible. The bishops at Toulouse forbade the reading of it because it was inaccurate. In this they were caring for their flocks, just as a Protestant minister of today might tell his flock not to read the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation. "

catholic.com/library/Catholic_Inventions.asp

No that’s not true, he banished Tyndale and threatened to kill him, but Tyndale was tried and convicted of Heresy by the Church in Brussles. Henry was going to do it himself though, because tyndale challenged henry’s illegitimate marriage(And was right to do so), but tyndale escaped from him and moved . Henry also didn’t like the translation of scripture he made because Henry always preferred the traditional interpretations.

Tyndale naturally blamed Henry for forcing him elsewhere in the first place(and his last words reflect that), and I guess you could say he did get Tyndale killed, but it was the Church that directly tried him for heresy.

[quote="Sir_Knight, post:1, topic:211371"]
This can't be correct ... ... Can anyone offer some supporting references to rebuke this? Thanks in advance.

[/quote]

It seems like you got hold of some anti-Catholic material, because whoever told you that left out historical context, etc.

The Council of Toulouse did indeed deal with the Bible. It was organized in reaction to the Albigensian or Catharist heresy, which held that there are two gods and that marriage is evil because all matter (and thus physical flesh) is evil. From this the heretics concluded that fornication could be no sin, and they even encouraged suicide among their members. In order to promulgate their sect, the Albigensians published an inaccurate translation of the Bible in the vernacular language (rather like the Jehovah’s Witnesses of today publishing their severely flawed New World Translation of the Bible, which has been deliberately mistranslated to support the sect’s claims). Had it been an accurate translation, the Church would not have been concerned. Vernacular versions had been appearing for centuries. But what came from the hands of the Albigensians was an adulterated Bible. The bishops at Toulouse forbade the reading of it because it was inaccurate. In this they were caring for their flocks, just as a Protestant minister of today might tell his flock not to read the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation.

The Church didn't execute anyone for reading the Bible, etc. The secular authorities may have, however. Keep in mind that during this period that the Church and the state were very closely allied, and that such things as heresy were also crimes in the secular state. And for many centuries, the secular state was very cruel in its punishments for those convicted of crimes. It's just how things were. To look at it from a 21st century American perspective, with no historical context, is to almost guarantee to generate misunderstanding.

Would anyone have a link to a site containing the source documents and declarations of this councel?

That would seem to be a good place to start.
I have a link to “Major councils of The Church” but it doesn’t mention this one.
Peace
James

This is ann oversimplification of a very deep theological and political problem. Noone was put to death simply for “reading the bible”. Heretics, namely Catharists, loosely translated Scripture into a vernacular form in the 1200s to suit their own twisted Christology. Their worldview was not only heretical, but treasonous to the national powers at the time (bearing in mind that the world was a very different place in the 1200s). This lead to the creation of the First Inquisition, which let to the extermination of the Albigensians. It wasn’t the Church that killed anyone directly. They essentially found people guilty of unrepentent heresy, which would then lead to the direct charge of treason, which was punishable by death. If you want to claim spiritual fellowship with the Catharist heretics, simply because they wanted to read a vernacular translation of Scripture, you may want to educate yourself of what else they believed in. Their beliefs are rooted in Gnosticism and are quite unChristian.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensians

[quote="Sir_Knight, post:1, topic:211371"]
This can't be correct ... ... Can anyone offer some supporting references to rebuke this? Thanks in advance.

[/quote]

Any body have a link to the "Council of Toulouse" documents?

I guess this was a local council?

Chuck

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