Catholic opinions about Sedevacantism?

Dear all Catholics,

After coming across this site here I would like to hear your opinions about Sedevacantism.

Personally myself, I was very shocked to see so many people depart from the current church and become as Protestants (would Catholics class them in the same class now?) - I can only assume what they are talking about is very big to them, even if I don’t understand it fully.

Would love to hear your thoughts on Sedevacantism, Sedevacantists as Protestants (?), and their claims. (kooky or valid?)

Warm Regards,
Rev13_16

sede vacant means they believe the throne of peter is vacant (which it is not) that there is no valid pope since pius xii. (untrue) i think sede vacantism is dangerous. i think Catholics need to avoid such sites.i for one do not visit those type of sites as a general rule. i visited this one you listed briefly because you asked a question. i read what they were about, and stopped there. iam not interested in what they have to say.

i do not believe what they are talking about as it has no merit at all. the throne of peter is not vacant nor will it be. i advise Catholics not to visit such a site.

To accept such a view is to believe hell had prevailed against the Church despite Christ’s promise that it wouldn’t in Mt 16:18. that of course is a lie.

That is, in fact, a heretical belief.

If the throne of Peter were empty, that would have to mean that the gates of Hell had prevailed, wouldn’t it?

good question!

The First Vatican General Council (known as Vatican I) states that God has endowed this Church with “*manifest marks of his institution”[size=1]*Neuner & Dupuis 122~ The First Vatican General Council Third Session Dogmatic Constitution Dei Filius on the Catholic Faith (1870) 3012 p.45] so that all can recognise her as the teacher and guardian of the revelation of God. The Church is essential in protecting the unity of the faith. Jesus himself provides a charter for this unity in John 17; his High Priestly Prayer which indicates the unity of the Church primarily through unity with Christ;[/size]

- “Where individuality ceases and is replaced and becomes pure “from” and “for”. All division rests on clinging to individuality that hinders the coalescence into unity- a concealed lack of real Christliness"[FONT=Times New Roman]* *Ratzinger, J, An Introduction to Christianity, (Ignatius, San Francisco, 2004)][/FONT]

The Church of Christ’s essential unity is repeatedly and explicitly expressed throughout the New Testament. Speaking of His Church, the Saviour called it a kingdom, the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God Matthew 13:24, 31, 33; Luke 13:18; John 18:36]; He compared it to a city the keys of which were entrusted to the Apostles Matthew 5:14; 16:19], to a sheepfold to which all His sheep must come and be united under one shepherd John 10:7-17]; to a vine and its branches, to a house built upon a rock against which not even the powers of hell should ever prevail (Matthew 16:18).

Moreover, the Saviour, just before He suffered, prayed for His disciples, for those who were afterwards to believe in Him - for His Church - that they might be and remain one as He and the Father are one John 17:20-23]; and He had already warned them that “every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand” Matthew 12:25]. As we can see, [FONT=Times New Roman]Christ’s words are expressive of the closest unity. This stance is echoed by St. Paul, who brands schism and disunion as crimes to be classed with murder and debauchery, and declares that those guilty of “dissensions” and “sects” shall not obtain the kingdom of God Galatians 5:20-21].
[/FONT]

I went to the website link you provided. After reading their FAQ’s it’s very clear that this site is rubbish.

Why bother reading this kind of stuff?

As a convert, I came to realize, through careful study of the Catechism and other readings, that the Catholic Church is always right. Always.

If you are confused that the Church is Truth, please study the Catechism and reflect on it, preferably in front of the Blessed Sacrament, after asking the Holy Spirit for guidance. I guarantee you’ll never doubt again.

This topic is off-limits for these forums. You need to read this “Permanant Sticky”:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=233631&highlight=Banned+Topics#post233631

Recommended Reading:

White Smoke, Valid Pope

The ban’s been lifted, but it can only be discussed in the Traditional Catholicism forum. See here

John

Sedevacantists have soiled the good name of traditional Catholicism. They are heretics.

Hello Everyone,

Firstly, Sorry didn’t know about the ban/reversal but only in trad cat forum.

Secondly, Thanks to all who replied, I still don’t understand why Sedevacantists believe what they do, but that’s probably because Catholicism is a whole 'nother world in itself and hard for the outsider to comprehend some things.

Hi meeshy,

I stumbled upon that site quite by accident, I was looking up Passion of the Christ, and decided to read about Mel Gibson, who apparently is a Sedevacantist, which lead me to that site.

You say the Catholic Church is never wrong and that if I reflected on the catechism I’d see the truth.

I doubt it.

While I think I’d like to be a Catholic, as a protestant there are the typical things I can’t get past, the biggest one is Mary.

I really think if Mary was dethroned from Catholicism, then alot of Protestants would “come home to Rome”, but for us it is a huge barricade.

Warm Regards,
Rev13_16

I really think if Mary was dethroned from Catholicism, then alot of Protestants would “come home to Rome”, but for us it is a huge barricade.

Warm Regards,
Rev13_16

Without wanting to derail the thread, I just wanted to touch on this point briefly.

It’s obvious that the jews held the Ark of the Covenant in high regard. The Ark held sacred things like the tablets of the Ten Commandments, etc.

Jesus is the New Covenant. Mary held inside of her the New Covenant. Which makes Mary, quite literally, the Ark of the New covenant.

Catholics like to show the proper to respect due to her as the single person chosen by God as worthy enough to bear the Son of God into this world. No person before or since has been worthy of such an honor.

Everyone knows about the love between a mother and her children. So obviously Mary and Jesus have a very unique relationship that none of us will ever have.

To bring the thread back on track, does anyone know if any formal action has been taken against the sedevacantists by the Vatican? I’m almost certain to deny the validity of the Pontiff is anathema.

Hi Unitas,

Re: Mary

I think the similarities between the law and Christ (grace) is this:

  • God gave both to humans through someone. (Moses & Mary)

But the big difference is that Jesus suffered terribly on the Cross, while the commandments were written by God himself.

I think Protestants can’t accept Mary’s level of praise because she wasn’t crucified or beaten or mocked.

Therefore to elevate her to similar staus/adoration with Jesus seems unthinkable to a Protestant.

Warm Regards,
Rev13_16

You make a good point, but off subject on the thread as you started it.
There are many threads about Mary vs protestantism vs erroneous beliefs ie “adoration similar to Jesus”.
I see no reason you could not start another thread on **Traditional Catholicism
**concerning how Traditional Catholics view Mary, her status, level of honor etc.
In any case you might start with your primary concern as stated above, giving us an example of where we treat Mary above the honors given to her by God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit.
Back to ya.

The thing about sedevacantism that I always find so illogical is that “they” say the See is vacant since John XXIII since he instituted Vatican 2.

However their argument is flawed for many reasons among which is Humanae Vitae. If Paul VI wasn’t a true Pope and was some heretic then he would NEVER EVER EVER have written Humanae Vitae. This they can’t deny but yet they do.

Also I would like to to know what their Protestant interpretation is of what Jesus said when he said “the gates of Hell shall not prevail…” For the SEE to be vacant for so long a time plus having 5 “heretical Popes” would seem to make what Our Lord said as untrue.

Some of them are as stubborn as fundamentalist protestants who say we worship Our Lady and the Saints despite clear and compelling evidence to the contrary.

Sedevacantism is an impossible position to hold. How can one be Catholic and actually believe that we have no pope? The SSPX has good articles refuting the sedevacantist position. They can be found here.

I don’t personally buy into the sedevacantist opinions, but why is this such an automatic response to these kinds of issues? Does that mean that the time between legitimate Popes the gates of hell prevail for a while? I just don’t see this as an automatic response that it so often is.

IMHO, the promise concerning the gates is meant to express the Lord’s guarantee that the Church would never fail in her mission, and would always be present. Sure, the Pope is a very valid part of that truth, but unless the Church disappears or actually fails in her mission somehow during the time in which there is no reigning Pontiff I just don’t see this claim being true. Even if there should be a period of a hundred years without a Pope there is no reason to assume that the Spirit would remove Himself from the people of God. Would people be blocked from salvation during that period? Would the sacraments no longer be efficaceous, and would all grace be removed from the earth? It just goes to far and doesn’t equate with the reality of what the role of Peter is and what the Church is. I just don’t see this as related to sedevacantism at all, and these people are wrong for the obvious reason that the Church in Rome has a bishop, and a valid one.

Patrick

Pax vobiscum!

Sedevacantists are Protestants. Plain and simple. They are just on the other side of the spectram.

In Christ,
Rand

I will pray for you. Please, please, please go to the Catholic Answers bookstore and order St. John Henry Newman’s “Mary, the Second Eve,” compiled by Sister Eileen Breen, F.M.A. St. John Henry Newman is a convert from Protestantism. If you are unable to purchase it, please pm me and I will be happy to arrange to purchase it for you, such is the importance of understanding the Church’s Theological Anthropology and Christology for that matter.

from page 25:

“…few Protestants have any real perception of the the doctrine of God and man in one Person. They speak in a dreamy, shadowy way of Christ’s divinity; but, when their meaning is sifted, you will find them very slow to commit themselves to any statement sufficient to express the Catholic dogma…Then when they comment on the Gospels, they will speak of Christ, not simply and consistently as God, but as a being make up of God and man, partly one and partly the other, or between both, or as a man inhabited by a special divine presence…and they are shocked, and think it a mark both of reverence and good sense to be shocked, when they hear the Man spoken of simply and plainly as God. They cannot bear to have it said, except as a figure or mode of speaking, that God had a human body, or that God suffered; they think that the “Atonement”, and “Sanctification through the Spirit”, as they speak is the sum and substance of the Gospel, and they are shy of any dogmatic expression which goes beyond them…”

And Mary has everything to do with God become man (Jn 1:14). "And so of the great Mother of God, as far as a creature can be like the Creator; her ineffable purity and utter freedom from any shadow of sin, her Immaculate Conception, her ever-virginity–these her prerogatives (in spite of her extreme youth at the time when Gabriel came to her) are such as to lead us to exclaim in the prophetic words of Scripture, both with awe and with exultation, "Thou art the glory of Jerusalem and the joy of Israel; thou artr the honour of our people; therefor hath the hand of the Lord strengthened thee, and therefore art thou blessed for ever (Judith 9:10-11).

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