Catholic school girl who refused headscarf for mosque trip labelled a truant

A Roman Catholic schoolgirl has been labelled a truant after she refused to wear a headscarf during a compulsory trip to a mosque.

Amy Owen, 14, and fellow girl pupils at a Catholic secondary school were told to cover their heads and wear trousers or leggings out of respect for their Muslim hosts.

But when her mother objected, saying she did not want her daughter to 'dress as a Muslim', she received a sternly worded warning letter from the headmaster saying she had no choice.

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277744/Parents-outrage-children-told-dress-Muslim-mosque-trip--branded-truant.html#ixzz0ntGuOCrI

One question, are pupils at Muslim schools going on trips to Churches?

Okay, I would chafe at it being mandatory, but what religious beliefs forbid visiting a mosque? And if you are visiting a mosque it is only respectful to wear a headscarf if that is customary. I’ve worn a yarmulke when I’ve gone to synagogue with friends.

If I were this girl’s mother I would have gotten her one of those lacy headscarves, whaddayacallit . . . a mantilla. :smiley:

There's nothing wrong with dressing respectully. Our Lady herself would have worn a veil over her head. I don't believe God would be offended if we wore a scarf over our heads while visiting a mosque for education purposes.

However, my faith isn't very strong at the moment, so at this time, I probably would refuse to go as well.

I wonder if this woman would have forbidden her daughter from wearing a head covering in a Catholic Church when such was mandatory??

It’s certainly within the rights of the people at the Mosque to request that any visitors comply with their dress standards. The school was only seeing to that.

However, if the mother felt that strongly about it then she would’ve been within her rights to either keep her daughter home that day (depending if it was an all day thing or not) or have her stay back at the school. I’m sure rules are different in the UK than here in the U.S. but the schools can’t make field trips compulsory. We always needed permission slips to leave school grounds, so why couldn’t the girl have been put in another classroom or a study hall for that time period?

ChadS

[quote="ChadS, post:5, topic:198370"]
It's certainly within the rights of the people at the Mosque to request that any visitors comply with their dress standards. The school was only seeing to that.

However, if the mother felt that strongly about it then she would've been within her rights to either keep her daughter home that day (depending if it was an all day thing or not) or have her stay back at the school. I'm sure rules are different in the UK than here in the U.S. but the schools can't make field trips compulsory. We always needed permission slips to leave school grounds, so why couldn't the girl have been put in another classroom or a study hall for that time period?

ChadS

[/quote]

Have you read the article?

In the letter - with words in block capitals and underlined - Mr Lee said the visit was 'as compulsory as a geography field trip'.
He added: 'There are two reasons for these visits. *One is that the scheme of work in religious studies REQUIRES children to have knowledge and understanding of other world religions.
'The second is that the school is REQUIRED to promote tolerance respect and understanding. This is known as community cohesion. *

'A failure to do this could result in an unwelcome inspection judgement. None of us would relish that.
'Whilst I may not require you to pay for this I must require your child to participate.'

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277744/Parents-outrage-children-told-dress-Muslim-mosque-trip--branded-truant.html#ixzz0nuI7ZvH1

If one were to read of the mother's objection and prejudices, then it appears to be the case that the child would have only benefitted from the school journey and ought to have participated.

How unfortunate Americans are not to be able to witness the daily miracle of the Daily Malice's conversion of molehills into mountains.

Asking a girl to cover her head in a mosque is no different than asking a man to cover his head in a synagogue or asking him to not wear a hat in a Catholic church or asking women to wear modest clothing at an audience with the Pope. It doesn't mean one is embracing any of those religion, it shows, if nothing else, respect for those religions' customs.

When I was a Boy Scout, our troop was sponsored by a local synagogue and the Scoutmaster was Jewish. We all wore our various Scout hats at meetings because they were held in the synagogue.

Tempest in a teapot.

Mountain out of a molehill

Not worth the Media attention.

Private matter between School and Parent/student.

Peace
James

[quote="JRKH, post:9, topic:198370"]
Tempest in a teapot.

Mountain out of a molehill

Not worth the Media attention.

Private matter between School and Parent/student.

Peace
James

[/quote]

Typical of Daily Mail.

Perhaps - but still worthy of discussion nonetheless. If you don’t think it’s worth your time, why did you even bother to post? :rolleyes:

~Liza

:banghead:

They got rid of one form of religious fundamentalism and bringing in another over there!

[quote="lizaanne, post:11, topic:198370"]
Perhaps - but still worthy of discussion nonetheless. If you don't think it's worth your time, why did you even bother to post? :rolleyes:

~Liza

[/quote]

I put in my :twocents: worth. That is all. Just as others have done.

Frankly I don't think it is worthy of much discussion because it was not worthy of being put in the newspaper in the first place. After all this ws not a "secular" school trying to force something on a person of faith

This was a Catholic School dealing with a Catholic Parent about their Catholic Child. In otherwords a private matter between peoples of the same faith group.

The running of the story is simple sensationalism. It's not unlike the "trolling" that sometimes happens here.

Peace
James

[quote="JRKH, post:13, topic:198370"]
I put in my :twocents: worth. That is all. Just as others have done.

Frankly I don't think it is worthy of much discussion because it was not worthy of being put in the newspaper in the first place. After all this ws not a "secular" school trying to force something on a person of faith

This was a Catholic School dealing with a Catholic Parent about their Catholic Child. In otherwords a private matter between peoples of the same faith group.

The running of the story is simple sensationalism. It's not unlike the "trolling" that sometimes happens here.

Peace
James

[/quote]

Perhaps not this exact story - but the situation is certainly worthy of discussion and the comments already here reflect that.

Is it wrong for a Catholic girl to cover her head in a mosque? Most people have posted that they do not have an issue with this - but I wonder if there are those who would? The thread is just newly created. I would be interested to hear if others would have a problem with their child doing this. Would/could it cause confusion in the child? Is it seen as a rejection of own's own faith to do such a thing? Or as the mother in the story seems to feel, it is "dressing up Muslim" - is that what they were asking her to do?

I don't see a problem with discussing situational topics - it doesn't mean the story that started the discussion is worthy or not. This is, after all, a discussion forum. ;)

~Liza

In the letter - with words in block capitals and underlined - Mr Lee said the visit was ‘as compulsory as a geography field trip’.
He added: 'There are two reasons for these visits. One is that the scheme of work in religious studies REQUIRES children to have knowledge and understanding of other world religions.
'The second is that the school is REQUIRED to promote tolerance respect and understanding. This is known as community cohesion.

'A failure to do this could result in an unwelcome inspection judgement. None of us would relish that.
‘Whilst I may not require you to pay for this I must require your child to participate.’

Aside from being extremely heavy handed, and also a bit domineering, the principles and objects of it are good. A better question is just how honest they are about instruction in regards to religions, and how much of the instruction is being “shaped” to fit the end goal: respect, tolerance and understanding. Something tells me its not about learning other religions so much as its about learning to respect them.

That European schools treat children like chattle is no surprise: “I must require your child to participate.” Does the writer not hear how odd that sounds?

Britainistan. :shrug:

[quote="lizaanne, post:14, topic:198370"]
Perhaps not this exact story - but the situation is certainly worthy of discussion and the comments already here reflect that.

I don't see a problem with discussing situational topics - it doesn't mean the story that started the discussion is worthy or not. This is, after all, a discussion forum. ;)

~Liza

[/quote]

Yes this is a discussion forum - I suppose that is why I wondered a bit that you would question my motives for posting in the first place. To your specific questions - - -

Is it wrong for a Catholic girl to cover her head in a mosque?

Nope there is nothing wrong with a girl covering her head in a mosque. It demonstrates respect.

Would/could it cause confusion in the child?

In my opinion, only if the parent instills such confusion.

Is it seen as a rejection of own's own faith to do such a thing?

Of course not. If anything it can be seen as an act of humility in submitting to the wishes of the Church authority placed over this girl at the time. Namely the Catholic School she is attending.

Or as the mother in the story seems to feel, it is "dressing up Muslim" - is that what they were asking her to do?

They were asking her to dress in a manner that was respectful to the place they were entering into. Given some of the dress I have seen on young people, even in Schools and at Sundy mass in this country, it doesn't surprise me that a place of worship would request that a certain level of dress be maintained.

Suppose when entering this place of worship there are others there praying. Inappropriate dress on those entering, could be a distraction, even an insult, to them.

How many times have we had conversations here about "inappropriate" dress at mass, and how distracting it can be.

Should we not offer the same level of respect to others that we expect or at least wish for in our own churches?

Overall I think there is far greater damage done by 1) The mother's attitude of defiance instead of obedience and 2) The unnecessary media attention, than by the simple submission to the request of the school to dress properly.

I'm reminded of a story I heard long ago about two buddist priests walking along. They came to a stream and noticed a woman in fine clothes who obviously was at a loss about how to cross. Now these buddist priests were not suppose to touch a woman, but the older priest picked up the woman, carried her across and put her down on the other side. The younger priest could not get over his shock and about an hour later finally spoke up asking, how could you do such a thing as to touch that woman. The Older priest stopped, looked at his young student and said, "I put the woman down an hour ago, why are you still carrying her?"

If the mother had complied with the Schoold's request, there would be no confusion, not newspaper report, no problem with truancy, no - nothing. The field trip would be over and done with, and everyone would move on to the next thing.

Tempest in a teapot.

Peace
James

Probably not, which is our strength. Muslims typically don’t understand Christianity and can’t describe it without caricaturing it.

Don’t you think it’s a good idea for Christians to be able to do better?

And don’t you think that these Catholic parents need to be better educated in their own tradition? (Calling all mantilla-wearing traditional Catholics here!) Covering your head isn’t “dressing like a Muslim.” It’s obeying the literal injunctions of St. Paul and/or conforming to the norms of traditional Mediterranean/Middle Eastern culture.

Note: I do not take St. Paul literally on this point. I’m just pointing out that St. Paul wasn’t a Muslim (even the Muslims don’t claim him:p).

When I took my students on a trip to a mosque a few weeks ago, one of them, the daughter of evangelical missionaries to Chad (who herself plans to go back there after graduation), brought headscarves along for all the women in the group. She said that in Chad Christian and Muslim women alike cover their heads.

It’s a gesture of cultural respect–it is in no way a compromise of Christian conviction.

Edwin

[quote="Habesha, post:1, topic:198370"]
Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277744/Parents-outrage-children-told-dress-Muslim-mosque-trip--branded-truant.html#ixzz0ntGuOCrI

One question, are pupils at Muslim schools going on trips to Churches?

[/quote]

Is the Archdiocese of Liverpool and Archbishop Partick Kelly aware of the involvement of Catholic schools visiting Muslim mosques?

I would understand students at a deep rooted Vatican obedient Catholic university/college visiting places of Muslim worship for educational purposes. I myself would probably not recommend this to elementary or secondary high schools. There is much educational material for Catholic students to learn in the classroom.

Do we as Catholics really think Muslim high school students are going to do field trips to Catholic and/or other Christian places of worship? It would be nice if they ever show up.

What is an "inspection judgment"?

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