Catholic woman in secret ordination

#1

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/4119254.stm

Before the service, the young woman at the centre of it all spoke about her act of defiance.

She admitted it worried her, but said: "I hope that in five years, in 10 years, things will change because there are many women who would like to go the same way, and the way will be a little better prepared for them". 

She said she did not wish to be identified because she feared losing her job teaching religious education.

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#2

I wonder if the superiors in her order know and approve? Sad. Thanks for posting this.

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#3

As I explained in another thread. A valid sacrament required proper matter, form and intent.

In the case of holy orders the proper matter is a MALE.

Therefore, there was no ordination, there was no sacrament and the woman is NOT a priest.

This means that even though she might go through the motions of doing a Mass, there is no Mass because there is no valid priest.

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#4

Fine, except that the BBC got the following wrong:
1 - It wasn’t an ordination (it was both illicit and invalid)
2 - It wasn’t secret
3 - The woman isn’t a priest (she doesn’t have “priestly status”)
4 - The ordainers aren’t Catholic
5 - And they failed to ask her why she stays

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#5

But his stern admonitions have been ignored. Among those conducting the ordination the BBC witnessed, were women from the Danube Seven who now describe themselves as bishops.

I can describe myself as St. Nicholas all day long but that doesn’t make me Santa Claus. :slight_smile:

The programme was told the ceremony and the words used were **almost identical ** to those laid down by the Roman Catholic Church, including a number of vows taken by the ordinand, promising to take on the responsibilities of priesthood.

Why bother is they weren’t going to use the actual words - only those that were “almost identical”??

I made no mention of the ceremony I had witnessed, but every person questioned, male and female, young and old, said they would welcome women into the Roman Catholic priesthood.

Things are worse there, even than in the US. Except for a few far liberal parishes, I doubt you would find anywhere here where “every person” even agreed they would accept women priests, let alone **welcome ** them. Even in the hot pockets of modernism in the Church, you find plenty of people who understand how and why this is impossible.

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#6

Another BBC rubish article.

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#7

This ticks me off (me)--------> :mad:

Benedict must issue a papal bull. They must all be excommunicated. Send them out of the Sancte Romana Ecclease, never to come back. Irreligious desecrators such as these must not be suffered to remain in the Church!

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#8

BORING!!! :banghead:

Heard it ALL before! :tsktsk:

Just excommunicate the lot of 'em :slight_smile:

Michael :smiley:

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#9

No kidding? :rolleyes:

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#10

Re - excommunication:

I think, but don’t have the reference at hand, that simulation of a sacrament is automatic excommunication.

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#11

Peace be with you!

This doesn’t really make me angry, just sad. I’ll say a rosary for all those involved that they may see the errors of their ways and come back to Holy Mother Church. That way they won’t have to be excommunicated.

In Christ,
Rand

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#12

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]Peace be with you!

This doesn’t really make me angry, just sad. I’ll say a rosary for all those involved that they may see the errors of their ways and come back to Holy Mother Church. That way they won’t have to be excommunicated.

In Christ,
Rand
[/quote]

Wasn’t this an act of self-excommunication? By the way, I hereby ordain myself as a High Priest in the Order of the Holy Vaccuum, a new cult whose only sacrament consists of forcible listening to audio tapes containing the endless dronings of CINO complaints about Christ’s Church that are interrupted every half hour by Helen Reddy’s “I Am Woman.” Cultists must wear specially designed aluminum foil hats that can accomodate the headphones. That carries about the same weight as what these poor lost souls attempted to do.

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#13

You gotta wonder why she bothered to choose it for a profession ---- and if you asked her why she bothers, she’d probably respond that she was “called” — it is amazing to me how many times people get these “calls” to do something they wish to do – just amazing coincidence.

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#14

Regarding excommunication:

If Pope Benedict XVI already excommunicated them, can they still go back to the Church if they sincerely repent and amend their ways?

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#15

[quote=kkin]Regarding excommunication:

If Pope Benedict XVI already excommunicated them, can they still go back to the Church if they sincerely repent and amend their ways?
[/quote]

The excommunication was automatic, Pope Benedict didn’t do it.

The Pope or someone he delegates would have to absolve them, if they were penitent. Absolution in this case is procedural, it’s different than absolution in the sacrament of reconciliation.

The words of the ordination were probably these: “The shalom of the holy; the disclosure of the gracious shekinah; divine wisdom; the empowering matrix; she in whom we live and move and have our being–she comes; she is here!”

Taken from… findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_13_28/ai_n6245102

It’s so obviously non-Christian. Notice no mention of the Holy Spirit. No mention of Jesus. They were ordained into a different religion entirely.

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#16

The bishop that will ordain these women was ex communicated before. He commited apostacy and heresy as well.

These women who will be ordained will NEVER be a Catholic priest. NEVER!

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#17

[quote=kkin]Regarding excommunication:

If Pope Benedict XVI already excommunicated them, can they still go back to the Church if they sincerely repent and amend their ways?
[/quote]

Yes, they can “still go back”, regardless of how one is excommunicated. There seems to be a general misunderstanding of what excommunication is. It is a censure, an outward warning that one has deviated gravely from the magesterium. It by no means removes anyone from the Chruch on a permanent basis. To do so would condemn someone to hell and would go against everything the Church teaches.

For a formal excommunication (the name escapes me at the moment), there is a formal process that one must follow. Others are handled in different ways. For example, the Church automatically excommunicates anyone who willingly participates in an abortion, but many women have returned to the Church through programs such as Project Rachael.

Hope this helps,

Nohome

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#18

[quote=Servus Pio XII]This ticks me off (me)--------> :mad:

Benedict must issue a papal bull. They must all be excommunicated. Send them out of the Sancte Romana Ecclease, never to come back. Irreligious desecrators such as these must not be suffered to remain in the Church!
[/quote]

Excommunication was never meant to “send them out never to return”. The whole purpose of the censure is to put people on notice so they may repent and return to the fold.

I do hope your comments were just an angry response to a news article that upset you. Your comments, void of any hope for forgivness, are as unCatholic as the topic at hand.

Nohome

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#19

May God have mercy on their souls!

In the case of the Danube Seven, it was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - now Pope Benedict - who declared that since the women gave no indication of repentance “for the most serious offence they have committed, they have incurred excommunication”. But his stern admonitions have been ignored. Among those conducting the ordination the BBC witnessed, were women from the Danube Seven who now describe themselves as bishops. “for the most serious offence they have committed, they have incurred excommunication”.

But his stern admonitions have been ignored. Among those conducting the ordination the BBC witnessed, were women from the Danube Seven who now describe themselves as bishops.

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#20

[quote=swampfox]Wasn’t this an act of self-excommunication?
[/quote]

Yes.

‘16) “Those who hold communion in criminal crime with a person whom the pope has excommunicated by name, that is, those who give him assistance or countenance.” The “criminal crime” (crimen criminosum) is the very one for which the culprit was excommunicated; the article, of course, does not contemplate participation in the offensive act itself, since excommunication by name is necessarily posterior to such an act. The penalty is inflicted for subsequently assisting or countenancing the excommunicated person. This is a survival (see above, II (5)] of the penalties incurred by intercourse with the excommunicated. It must be noted that this censure is not imposed for intercourse with all excommunicated persons, but only with vitandi, those whom the pope has excommunicated by name, not such as have been excommunicated by a Roman Congregation (Holy Office, 16 June, 1897) or by the bishop.’

newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

In other words, because the Danube 7 were excommunicated by a Pope for participating in invalid ordinations, these women invalid ordained by these self-described bishops were automatically excommunicated.

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