catholicism contradicts the bible?


#1

can you answer some of these questions for me. they are a few things the catholic faith practice that contradicts what the bible teaches. I’ll post more if I can think of other things.

1) Why pray repetitive words using the rosary when the bible specifically states:
“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.” Matthew 6:7

**2)**The Pope taught that Mary is the mediator between God and man. Catholics also engage in more praising of Mary than Jesus Christ himself and actually pray to her to have their prayers answered. The Rosary most often ends with a “Hail, Holy Queen” prayer to Mary, not God. The bible says otherwise:

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Timothy 2:5

**3) why worship images when it violates the 2nd commandment?

**“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:4

4)Can babies be baptized since they do not first believe?

The bible says
"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Mark 16:16 "As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” Acts 8:36-37

**5)Can babies be baptized since they do not first repent?

**“Brethren, what must we do?” Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-38


#2

I suggest that you obtain a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, read it to find out what Catholics really believe, and then post your questions. Your post is typical of a protestant who objects to what he** thinks** Catholics believe. I can’t tell if you’re sincerely asking questions, baiting us, or simply trying to prove us wrong.


#3

Please Read the articles found at these links, and if you still have questions we would be happy to answer them…

[quote=xxpnoisnxx]can you answer some of these questions for me. they are a few things the catholic faith practice that contradicts what the bible teaches. I’ll post more if I can think of other things.

1) Why pray repetitive words using the rosary when the bible specifically states:
“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.” Matthew 6:7
[/quote]

catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp

catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp

catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

catholic.com/library/Early_Teachings_of_Infant_Baptism.asp

If you still have any questions, please feel free to ask them! :smiley:


#4

3) why worship images when it violates the 2nd commandment?

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:4


I worship an Image,and that image is christ
read how an image can be worshipped (col 1:15)

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

As a book is for the learned, the image is for the unlearned


#5

[quote=marlo]3) why worship images when it violates the 2nd commandment?
[/quote]

We do not worship images. Images are used for devotional purposes, a crucfix is a representation of Christ’s ultimate love for us.

Kneeling and bowing is not necessarily a sign of worship, it is also a sign honor, such as people bow in the presence of royalty.

‘And she rose and bowed with her face to the ground, and said, “Behold, your handmaid is a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord.”’ (1 Samuel 25:41)

“So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, `Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’” (Matthew 18:26)

‘While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel; and as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead?”’ (Luke 24:4-5)

[quote=marlo]“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:4
[/quote]

“And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be. And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark; and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you.” (Exodus 25:18-21)

God permits the use of images as devotionals, what he condems is idolatry, which is the worship of a false god. Catholics do not believe that Mary and the Saints are divine.

“Or in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:4

Many non-Catholic Christians have a fish on their car bumper.

Thank you Marlo for your input. Pax Vobiscvm!


#6

There are a lot of things to respond to, lets discuss the role of the Virgin Mary this time around. When Christ came into the world he re- capitulated many of the old institutions of the old covenant. For instance, Moses had the 72 advisors, Christ sent out the 72 to go preach the Gospel.The tree of life in the Garden of Eden is now the tree of the cross.The un-blemished Passover Lamb of Exodus is now Jesus Christ, whom we partake of in the Eucharist.Many of these old institutions were a “type” of what wasto be their fufillment in the New covenant However since God promised (in the old testament) that manyof these were to be everlasting ordinances (such as the passover) he could not simply discard them, otherwise he would have gone back on his word. He did, however transform many of the old ordinances and institutions. The blessed Virgin Mary is a perfect example of this. If in the Old covenant, Eve was responsible for the fall of Adam. There had to be a parallel in the New order. Mary’s submission to God’s will made possibe, the incarnation of Christ. She therefore, assissted to make our redemption possible. We as Catholics fully realize that redemption is from Christ alone. What you fail to percieve is that God recognizes and honors those who assist him on this Earth. This is the basis for the Communion of Saints.To use a sports analogy, let me pose this question. Who is more important the person who scores a goal or the person who made the assist, that made the goal possible? The answer is the person who scored the Goal. However, in most game statistics we always honor the person who made the assist fot the obvious reasons. God is no different in this regard. That is why we honor the Saints and especially the Virgin Mary who made the most important assist.To claim that we put these others above Christ is an obvious error becuse it is Christ whom we are baptized into, it is his body and blood we partake and in his name we are reconciled. Christ is our sole mediator, however we have many intercessors. When we pray for others we act as intercessors.The role of Mary however is higher than that of all the Saints for many reasons. I will list a few. She is the spouse of the Holy spirit (by Virtue of her virginal conception).She is the Mother of God, and daughter of the King. The queen Mother of Israel in the old testament had the power of intercession at the side of the King. I will respond later to other objections to the Catholic faith. Peace


#7

I became Catholic five years ago, I was Raised Mormon as a Child and had heard all of these while I was growing up. Let me answer each one for you, you can do the research. All these answers are easily found.

**1) **Why pray repetitive words using the rosary when the bible specifically states:
“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless…” Matthew 6:7

Meaningless is the key here. Is “Holy, Holy God” is this meaningless?, or “Our Father who”

**2)The Pope taught that Mary is the mediator between God and man. **

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Timothy 2:5

You learned the Above from the Catholic Church and it is very much true in my life. Christ is the only way to the Father.

I love Mary. Are we not all part of the one body of Christ? Does not Christ share the role of Salvation with each of us? Do we not pray for one another? Christ is the only way, Mary went this way on the merits of Christ.

3) why worship images when it violates the 2nd commandment?

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:4

You learned the from the Catholic Faith, as well, from the overflow of the Mass: Our idol is Christ only.

4)Can babies be baptized since they do not first believe?

The bible says
"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Mark 16:16

As an adult who did not understand baptism, my faith demanded that I understood the meaning of repentance and belief in my Lord Jesus before I was baptized. My faith demanded that I know the Fathers love, how he has waited for the day for his son to return home asking to be forgiven in order for the healing process to begin. A healing process that was to start late in my life. The demand was a demand from love itself. This love that I had found later in life was passed on to my children at birth because of my Christian wife. My own Children who were baptized as infants, this love they have come to know as the love of Christ Jesus. It was my own son at eight, baptized as an infant that helped lead me to the apostolic faith. While I was in this line waiting with him to his first confession he looked up at me and said “Dad, I have not done anything wrong.” Then a minute later he said “Dad, I have lied.” I looked down at him and said, “go with that” As he came out of confession he took my hand and led me to the Alter where there was a box of sand with candles lit. He took a candle and asked me to light it and I did. Then he knelt down in front of the Alter and began to pray. As I peeked at him from the corner of my eye I realized then that something really special was taking place. My eight year old son was really speaking to God and from his little heart he gave me the courage to start doing the same. My son was forgiven and he knew it. The gift of forgiveness and reconciliation had already become forefront in his life at eight, he was already on the great path of asking for forgiveness and receiving it, in hearing it, he already had come to a knowledge of Christ as healer. I on the other hand would have to wait a bit longer, before my baptism to gain in this life what he had already been given to him as an infant from God. God’s gift of baptism is a gift. It is not earned it is given freely. The demand of repentance and belief shows that this gift is unconditionally given by a God who only wants those who are burdened by sin to be free of it, so that this free gift can be fully understood and appreciated in its fullness of meaning. An infant cannot demand an operation to save his or her life from a life threatening illness. Do we let the child wait until he or she can make this decision? It is best to get to the cancer while it is still small, it is best to start treatment as soon as possible. For 15 hundred years there was just one Christian community, baptism was not baptism into a certain Church, it was baptism into the Christian community, into the one body of Christ, into the death of Christ, in order to come home through the resurrection of Christ.


#8

I mean this in a polite way. Posting links can be seen as an escape from having to answer the questions yourself in an attempt to cover up what you yourself cannot answer. If you know the answer, you should be able to type a concise and informative response at the very least. JMO


#9

[quote=geezerbob]I suggest that you obtain a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, read it to find out what Catholics really believe, and then post your questions. Your post is typical of a protestant who objects to what he** thinks** Catholics believe. I can’t tell if you’re sincerely asking questions, baiting us, or simply trying to prove us wrong.
[/quote]

The questions are pretty direct and to the point. They were not rude. I mean this politely. Referring someone to read something can be viewed as a lack of knowledge on the part of the person answering the question.


#10

[quote=CatherineofA]I mean this in a polite way. Posting links can be seen as an escape from having to answer the questions yourself in an attempt to cover up what you yourself cannot answer. If you know the answer, you should be able to type a concise and informative response at the very least. JMO
[/quote]

When a professional has already said exactly what I want to say, links are the way to go.:smiley: The same result in less time, can’t beat that.


#11

**

3) why worship images when it violates the 2nd commandment?

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:4

That’s part of the first commandment. And last time I checked, no one worships images. Do you really think we are stupid enough to think some wood or plaster is God almighty? That’s very insulting.**


#12

We do not worship images. Images are used for devotional purposes, a crucfix is a representation of Christ’s ultimate love for us.

Kneeling and bowing is not necessarily a sign of worship, it is also a sign honor, such as people bow in the presence of royalty.

‘And she rose and bowed with her face to the ground, and said, “Behold, your handmaid is a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord.”’ (1 Samuel 25:41)

“So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, `Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’” (Matthew 18:26)

‘While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel; and as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead?”’ (Luke 24:4-5)

“And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be. And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark; and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you.” (Exodus 25:18-21)

God permits the use of images as devotionals, what he condems is idolatry, which is the worship of a false god. Catholics do not believe that Mary and the Saints are divine.

“Or in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:4

Many non-Catholic Christians have a fish on their car bumper.

Thank you Marlo for your input. Pax Vobiscvm!

when God gave the instructions on building the ark he said nothing about worshiping it.
Sure, Christians have fish on their cars, do they worship them?
I see you guys using the word images a lot, you’re forgetting a word Graven - statues, etc. No graven images of anything in Heaven or on earth. So your statues of Mary, you pictures of Saints, those are all graven images.


#13

[quote=CatherineofA]The questions are pretty direct and to the point. They were not rude. I mean this politely. Referring someone to read something can be viewed as a lack of knowledge on the part of the person answering the question.
[/quote]

Believe it or not, there are people who have spent a lot more time and study of these issues than the average joe. On some subjects, I would rather refer someone to a better-informed expert on a subject than depending on my own, potentially faulty answer.

It’s not a cop-out, it’s good sense.

Aunt Martha


#14

[quote=CatherineofA]I mean this in a polite way. Posting links can be seen as an escape from having to answer the questions yourself in an attempt to cover up what you yourself cannot answer. If you know the answer, you should be able to type a concise and informative response at the very least. JMO
[/quote]

It could also been meant as a polite way of saying, “We’ve heard and responded to these same accusations ad nauseam, so please do the research yourself.” All the OP has to do is make a search of these fora, and he will find all the same tired accusations answered many times over. If one cannot do a search for some reason, the other posters here have been polite enough to point the questioner in the right direction.


#15

[quote=medjr]when God gave the instructions on building the ark he said nothing about worshiping it.
Sure, Christians have fish on their cars, do they worship them?
I see you guys using the word images a lot, you’re forgetting a word Graven - statues, etc. No graven images of anything in Heaven or on earth. So your statues of Mary, you pictures of Saints, those are all graven images.
[/quote]

So are the pictures of your family.We do not worship them and hopefully you don’t worship your family album:rolleyes:


#16

This OP looks to me like nothing more than another anti-Catholic hit and run poster.This whole thread should probably be deleted. :mad:


#17

[quote=CatherineofA]I mean this in a polite way. Posting links can be seen as an escape from having to answer the questions yourself in an attempt to cover up what you yourself cannot answer. If you know the answer, you should be able to type a concise and informative response at the very least. JMO
[/quote]

We have had an insurgence of Anti-Catholics since the Pope died.So links are a way to see if the poster is sincere in there questions too.


#18

For those that think that repetitive prayer is forbidden, (I find this most absurd) then they are making the claim that Jesus contradicted himself. Xxpnoismxx quotes Matthew 6:7, but apparently failed to read Matthew 26:42. This is the account of Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. “Again, a second time he went away and prayed; ‘My father,’ he said’ if this cup cannot pass by… etc”. WHAT…. Jesus praying repetitively??? How can that be? If I ask Jesus for help with my finances this morning, then I ask him again this afternoon, and again tomorrow morning, am I not repeating my prayers. It makes no difference if I asked at different times; it’s still repeating prayers. Xxpnoisxx makes the fatal mistake of picking sections of scripture without reading the whole. Jesus is talking about people who parade their prayers with a “better than thou” attitude and want all men to see how “holy” they are. These are prayers in vain because they try to draw attention to oneself. The rosary as a whole is one big prayer and meditation in the life of Jesus.

[font=&quot][font=Georgia]BTW I hope this is not one of those “trollish” threads….[/font][/font]


#19

[quote=xxpnoisnxx]can you answer some of these questions for me. they are a few things the catholic faith practice that contradicts what the bible teaches. I’ll post more if I can think of other things.
Holy Spirit.
[/quote]

  1. If you do a search on these questions, you will probably find responces to most of your questions. You may not agree with the answers, but answers to your question are already available.
  2. The Catholic faith does not contradict with the Bible. If you believe it contradicts then you are either misunderstanding the Catholic faith, the Bible or both.
  3. Please do a search before you begin another thread. There are already many threads that cover almost any topic, and you are free to participate in those. You are also free to post a new thread as you did here, but many people tire of writing the “same old, same old” stuff. Since you seem to have a concern about Catholics repeating things, please don’t keep asking us to repeat what many have already said.:slight_smile:

If you sincerely seek answers to your questions, you are welcome here. Even if you are not sincere, I hope you take the opportunity to learn about the Catholic Church that gave you the New Testament.:hmmm:


#20

[quote=medjr] So your statues of Mary, you pictures of Saints, those are all graven images.
[/quote]

No, because we’re not worshiping them, just like you don’t worship your images. Pax Vobiscvm!


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