Catholicism ruined my mother’s life!


#1

I am on bible dicussion.com and a person asked me this question, how do I respond
quote
"**The bible says that God is no respector of persons right? And that if a person comes to Christ he will in no wise cast him out right?

Explain to me then why when my mother who was born and raised a catholic, met my father who was a protostant and wanted to get married in the church, they excommunicated my mother and told her if she married my father they would be living in sin before God?

My mother took this personally, the day she died she believed that God had disowned her.

The Catholic church tries to be God, thats my problem with the church.

Some day they may realize that God is bigger than them, and it is God that makes the rules not them.
And when God says don’t do this or that and they do it anyways, who do you think I’m going to listen to???
Not the catholic church.

There are a lot of good christians in the catholic church. I just hope someday they can come down off their pedestals and join the rest of us instead of judging men according to their standards.

I didn’t mean to get touchy, but this is a touchy subject for me and I will say no more.

Peace**" end quote


#2

[quote=D Quintero]I am on bible dicussion.com and a person asked me this question, how do I respond
quote
"The bible says that God is no respector of persons right? And that if a person comes to Christ he will in no wise cast him out right?

Explain to me then why when my mother who was born and raised a catholic, met my father who was a protostant and wanted to get married in the church, they excommunicated my mother and told her if she married my father they would be living in sin before God?

My mother took this personally, the day she died she believed that God had disowned her.

The Catholic church tries to be God, thats my problem with the church.

Some day they may realize that God is bigger than them, and it is God that makes the rules not them.
And when God says don’t do this or that and they do it anyways, who do you think I’m going to listen to???
Not the catholic church.

There are a lot of good christians in the catholic church. I just hope someday they can come down off their pedestals and join the rest of us instead of judging men according to their standards.

I didn’t mean to get touchy, but this is a touchy subject for me and I will say no more.

Peace" end quote
[/quote]

Hello Quintero: I’m so sorry for the experience your mom had in the Catholic Church. All I can say is yes, men can be wicked and sinful, even Priests, but that Christ’s True Church will always be. It is not a reflection on the whole of the church what happened to your precious mom, maybe a priest whom gave her very bad advice, etc. Have you ever told her this before she died? I hope so. In any event, these things happen everywhere. We live in a sinful world my friend. Trust God and His Church and His Word. They are the only things that will never let us down.

God Bless You~~


#3

it is no me. it is a person I am talking to, thanks anyway. :slight_smile:


#4

People often tell these stories from their own point of view while leaving out anything that might mitigate the “fault” of the Church. I have no doubt that this woman was never threatened with excommunication. Rather, she thought she would be and just told it that way. All they would have to have done was have a priest or deacon present to make the marriage sacramental in the eyes of the Church. If this woman wanted to pretend to her dying day that the Church wronged her because she could’t bring herself to admit she had been mistaken, that was up to her. But, she could easily have been reconciled to the Church at any time if she had contacted a priest or her bishop.


#5

I hope you haven’t replied to this person yet.

First thing to do is ask where in the Bible it says that God is not a respector of persons.

Hmmm…ask him if his father thought of converting to Catholocism.

AND, “They” who? Rome got personally involved with this case?

Ask some questions before you reply.


#6

"The bible says that God is no respector of persons right? And that if a person comes to Christ he will in no wise cast him out right?

I don’t understand the first question…but, this may help on the second: catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9211vbv.asp

Explain to me then why when my mother who was born and raised a catholic, met my father who was a protostant and wanted to get married in the church, they excommunicated my mother and told her if she married my father they would be living in sin before God?

I’m wondering if her mother was truly excommunicated, or if this is just a misunderstanding. The Catholic church does grant dispenstations for those mixed marriages, but there are requirements (such as the promise that any children will be raised in the Catholic church) which perhaps thery were not willing to meet.

I should note however that when my mother (originally Protestant) and my Father (catholic) were pregnant with me (after marriage) a priest from a nearby parish called my mother and told her that because their wedding was not in the Catholic Church that it was not valid (which it was, by all requirements),and I was a child of adultery. (Sadly this delayed my mom’s initial enterence into the church). Now you and I know that this is not truely the Church’s position, but rather the view of one priest. I’m wondering if perhaps the same type of thing did not happen in this instance.

Explain (perhaps) that you could understand how this subject is so touchy to her/him, and then explain the Churches views on this (CCC, Article 7, beginning at 1601 helps). Ask questions regarding the facts about this “excommunication”. Perhaps explain that just as there are some Protestant pastor’s do not necessarily teach what their own particular church might hold (infact this is much more of an issue in Protestantism as there are no seminaries), this occasionally happens in Catholicism as well.

I’m sure others will do a better job at this, but hope this helps!
k

P.S. Explaining that we aren’t on pedestals may take longer, but at least he/she concedes we’re christian (:)) so you may make some headway…remember CHARITY :slight_smile: (which you seem to)


#7

Peace be with you!

Doesn’t an excommunication have to come from the Vatican itself? I wouldn’t call this person’s mom a liar, but I seriously doubt that Rome got involved here.
A marriage can’t be sacramental (although it is still considered valid) unless BOTH people are Catholic. If one is non-Catholic, they can still be married in the Church, but the marriage won’t be sacramental until that person converts…if I’m remembering correctly.

Kind of reminds me of a street preacher that I had a discussion with a few months ago. He claimed that (and once again, I didn’t want to go calling people liars) his father’s first wife left him and because of that, his father was refused communion. Well, we all know well that that wouldn’t happen unless his father had taken up with another woman without getting his marriage annolled. Probably just a misunderstanding, like your friend’s mother had.

In Christ,
Rand


#8

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]Peace be with you!

Doesn’t an excommunication have to come from the Vatican itself? I wouldn’t call this person’s mom a liar, but I seriously doubt that Rome got involved here.
A marriage can’t be sacramental (although it is still considered valid) unless BOTH people are Catholic. If one is non-Catholic, they can still be married in the Church, but the marriage won’t be sacramental until that person converts…if I’m remembering correctly.

Kind of reminds me of a street preacher that I had a discussion with a few months ago. He claimed that (and once again, I didn’t want to go calling people liars) his father’s first wife left him and because of that, his father was refused communion. Well, we all know well that that wouldn’t happen unless his father had taken up with another woman without getting his marriage annolled. Probably just a misunderstanding, like your friend’s mother had.

In Christ,
Rand
[/quote]

Actually I believe that the marriage is a sacrament if the protestant was baptized.

MP


#9

Dear Quintero!

I am so sorry to hear what happend to the mother in the example you gave. I would have written something like this as an answer to the angry person:

If she (your mother) really was excomunicated it must have been used as a warning.

There is no problems of today for a catholic to marry a protestant (free to marry in church, that’s annulled or never married) in the Catholic Church, but the church requires that both the protestant and the catholic agree to raise the childeren in the catholic faith. If they will not do that the catholic resignes her/his faith by free will and has no longer right to reseive the sacraments.

If the protestant don’t want to obey, he/she is partly to blame for what happens to his/her bride/bridegrom. If the couple later matures and returns to Church, the mother (in this case) would have to be reconciled to the Church by admitting she was wrong (confession to a priest), promise to have the children raised catholic and had her marriage blessed by the Church. If the man was bound to a former marriage that was not anulled , he still was married to the other one and the only way she (your mother ) could come back to Church, would be to leave him. :bible1:

About death: Everyone can call for a catholic priest, even protestants, to be reconciled with the chatholic church (some don’t feel sorry for sins when they do the sins and don’t want to repent before this stage in life (if they do understand that they have sinned and now feel sorry). There will then be a confession and a parttaking in the Eucaristuc meal (and annointing). As an axample: If a protestant has asked for this on his deathbed, he dies as a catholic and will be burried from a Catholic Church. The ususal formalities for convertion is not considered in the special circumstances!!

I **do understand ** that you have many feelings attached to this. :mad: :crying: , but you can’t hinder a church to have its own regulations to put on their members. If people are excommunicated it is because they have sinned of free will! ** That part ** I suppose is very difficult to accsept, because it’s not always so easy to see faults in loved ones like a mother or a father. In this special case, however, there can have been misunderstandings or the priest may have misused his power. :bigyikes:

If your mother didn’t understand that she could be reconsiled with the Church, you must leave the whole thing to a mercyful God! It is only by the grace of God we will enter Heaven.

Anyway, **you have lost your catholic upbringing ** and need to learn about what you have lost and how good God is (even if he permits evil. Without that permission we would have been God small puppets on strings).

A link to catholic marriage (Sacrament of Matrimony):
catholic.org/clife/prayers/sacrament.php?id=7

A link to catholic confession (Sacrament of Penance/Reconciliation):
catholic.org/clife/prayers/sacrament.php?id=4

Here is a link about **all ** The Seven Sacraments of the Church:
christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/p6.html

The Catholic Cathechism on The Seven sacraments:
christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/part2_2.html

Some good books about catholisism:

  1. The Catholic Virtues: Seven Pillars of a Good Life (Paperback)
    by Mitch Finley

  2. On Being Catholic by Thomas Howard

  3. Making Sense Out of Suffering by Peter Kreeft
    ( All of them can be bought from amazon.com/

To find Bibleverses that is appropriate, search here:
bible.gospelcom.net/

or here:
bible.com/

Link to “150 Reasons Why I am a Catholic
Featuring 300 Biblical Evidences Favoring Catholicism”:
geocities.com/junmeskie/150Reasons.html

My best wishes. Hope you will be able to plant a little seed about that the person (from the mixed marriage) should have been catholic and must not let anger or frustations be hindrances to learn about the catholic faith! (We have all had our disappointments in life (some more than others), but life must go on. It’s of no use to blame someone or to blame God or Church for our own misfortune).

We have our free will to blame Him (God) of course, but that doesn’t help us to come closer to God!!

Link to the cominghome network:
chnetwork.org/

**A prayer: **
Be, Lord Jesus, a bright flame before me,
a guiding star above me,
a smooth path below me,
a kindly shepherd behind me:
today, tonight, and forever. Amen.

G.G.


#10

[quote=D Quintero]I am on bible dicussion.com and a person asked me this question, how do I respond
quote
"The bible says that God is no respector of persons right? And that if a person comes to Christ he will in no wise cast him out right?

Explain to me then why when my mother who was born and raised a catholic, met my father who was a protostant and wanted to get married in the church, they excommunicated my mother and told her if she married my father they would be living in sin before God?

My mother took this personally, the day she died she believed that God had disowned her.

The Catholic church tries to be God, thats my problem with the church.

Some day they may realize that God is bigger than them, and it is God that makes the rules not them.
And when God says don’t do this or that and they do it anyways, who do you think I’m going to listen to???
Not the catholic church.

There are a lot of good christians in the catholic church. I just hope someday they can come down off their pedestals and join the rest of us instead of judging men according to their standards.

I didn’t mean to get touchy, but this is a touchy subject for me and I will say no more.

Peace" end quote
[/quote]

Not knowing many of the details it’s impossible to speak to this specific situation. However in general under the old code of Canon Law prior to 1983. A Catholic who married a divorced person outside the Church was excommunicated. Pope Paul VI lifted all the excommunications thus allowing all those who were excommunicated to return to the Sacraments. (after reconciliation). In the current code excommunication is not a punishment of the law for this. A Catholic in this situation is unable to receive the Sacraments, but not excommunicated.


#11

Peace be with you!

So am I correct in saying that excommunication comes from the Vatican? Or can bishops excommunicate with that authority?

In Christ,
Rand


#12

[quote=Michael Paul]Actually I believe that the marriage is a sacrament if the protestant was baptized.

MP
[/quote]

Right. When two validly baptized people are married, it is sacramental. In my case I married and was unbaptized and my wife was baptized… My marriage was valid and then became sacramental when I was baptized.

Scott


#13

The automatic (latae sententiae) excommunications for these types of situations were lifted in 1970 and in 1977 by Pope Paul VI.


#14

I often have something with those who say that this or that ruined their life. No one can ruin their lives except themselves. The decisions we make often lead to whatever life we have. It’s no one’s fault other than our own, simply because we willed it to be. Anyway, to the issue itself: there is no excommunication if one is married to a non-Catholic, especially if one would be married in the Church. My understanding is that one cannot receive the Communion (and maybe a few other Sacraments, except Confession) if one is married outside the Church, in which case then the marriage would have to be revalidated in the Church after the Catholic makes confession.


#15

[quote=Della]People often tell these stories from their own point of view while leaving out anything that might mitigate the “fault” of the Church. I have no doubt that this woman was never threatened with excommunication. Rather, she thought she would be and just told it that way. All they would have to have done was have a priest or deacon present to make the marriage sacramental in the eyes of the Church. If this woman wanted to pretend to her dying day that the Church wronged her because she could’t bring herself to admit she had been mistaken, that was up to her. But, she could easily have been reconciled to the Church at any time if she had contacted a priest or her bishop.
[/quote]

There is always more to the story. I have friends who were married many many years ago one was Jewish and married a Catholic all the man had to do was agree to raise the children Catholic. I have never heard of this before. But I have heard many many stories from people who give dozens of different reasons for leaving the church. Many of them are not valid reasons merely copouts.


#16

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]Peace be with you!

So am I correct in saying that excommunication comes from the Vatican? Or can bishops excommunicate with that authority?

In Christ,
Rand
[/quote]

They can be Automatic, or they can be issued by Bishops, Tribunals, and Different congregations like the CDF.


#17

[quote=adstrinity]First thing to do is ask where in the Bible it says that God is not a respector of persons.
[/quote]

Acts 10:34. The first Pope is speaking.

DaveBj


#18

I would tell him he is a good son for loving his mother so much. The Church allowed me to get to married to my wife who is Catholic and allowed us to have a Mass at the wedding. I’m a convert but I am not confirmed yet. I did not recieve at the mass but the Church still married us.

This is a sad story for sure.

-D


#19

[quote=DaveBj]Acts 10:34. The first Pope is speaking.

DaveBj
[/quote]

That says that God shows no partiality, not that he doesn’t respect people… What am I missing?


#20

[quote=D Quintero]I am on bible dicussion.com and a person asked me this question, how do I respond
quote
"The bible says that God is no respector of persons right? And that if a person comes to Christ he will in no wise cast him out right?

Explain to me then why when my mother who was born and raised a catholic, met my father who was a protostant and wanted to get married in the church, they excommunicated my mother and told her if she married my father they would be living in sin before God?

My mother took this personally, the day she died she believed that God had disowned her.

The Catholic church tries to be God, thats my problem with the church.

Some day they may realize that God is bigger than them, and it is God that makes the rules not them.
And when God says don’t do this or that and they do it anyways, who do you think I’m going to listen to???
Not the catholic church.

There are a lot of good christians in the catholic church. I just hope someday they can come down off their pedestals and join the rest of us instead of judging men according to their standards.

I didn’t mean to get touchy, but this is a touchy subject for me and I will say no more.

Peace" end quote
[/quote]

To this day, Catholics technically need permission to marry non-Catholics.

I suspect that back in the 1940s and 50s, in some areas the permission was not readily given – for example, where prejudice against a Catholic minority in a heavily Protestant area was keen.

It is reliable that a Catholic diocese would not excommunicate for merely *wanting *to marry a Protestant or for asking to marry a Protestant.

And, without that permission, a Catholic can’t marry in the Church and so is not married, if the wedding is before one not a Catholic priest.

So, perhaps the sequence of events was, (1) Catholic girl meets Protestant boy; (2) Catholic girl asks priest for permission to marry the Protestant; (3) the priest refuses (perhaps because the priest asked the Protestant boy, “Do you believe in using rubbers, son?,” or something like that, and the boy says, “Of course!,” unaware that he’s just put the kiss of death on the wedding); (4) the girl says, “But, Father, I will marry him, in front of a minister, if I have to! I love him!” (5) the priest, meaning, “You’ll be living in a state of sin, so that I can’t give you Communion,” says, “You’ll be excommunicated, my child!” (6) The girl stomps off, and she marries her Protestant boyfriend before a minister.


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