Catholics accused of worshiping Mary


#1

In the Islamic forum there is a thread ‘Why I am not a Christian’. One of the posters there used the excuse that we worship Mary as to why she was not a Christian, when I corrected her the Mod requested that we stay on subject, so I am starting this thread in hopes that anyone who thinks we Catholics worship Mary will come here and state their reasons for believing so and we can correct them. Thank you.


#2

My answer to that is always the same: “*If we really do worship Mary then why do we deny it?” *Don’t people always

We’ve always been accused of worshiping Her. They don’t understand the difference between Honor and Worship.


#3

[quote=Lance]In the Islamic forum there is a thread ‘Why I am not a Christian’. One of the posters there used the excuse that we worship Mary as to why she was not a Christian, when I corrected her the Mod requested that we stay on subject, so I am starting this thread in hopes that anyone who thinks we Catholics worship Mary will come here and state their reasons for believing so and we can correct them. Thank you.
[/quote]

Lance…thank you for the invite to post on your thread. So let me be the first to say (since I am the gal you speak of) that I see Catholics as worshipping Mary. Perhaps you can be the one to set me straight and make me understand what i have been unable to for so many years.
Why worship or pray to Mary (and Saints) when I can pray directly to God? Does the Bible not say something to the extent of you should not worhsip idols? Or are these two seperate things?


#4

[quote=shannin]They don’t understand the difference between Honor and Worship.

[/quote]

Honor: Great respect and admiration
Worship: treat somebody or something as deity: to treat somebody or something as divine and show respect by engaging in acts of prayer and devotion

I worship and honor God.


#5

[quote=Karin]Honor: Great respect and admiration
Worship: treat somebody or something as deity: to treat somebody or something as divine and show respect by engaging in acts of prayer and devotion

I worship and honor God.
[/quote]

The 4th commandment says we are to honor our parents. We do not worship our parents. There is a difference.

Maybe you haven’t heard this before, but:

latria = worship due to God alone.
dulia = honor [due to saints].
hyperdulia = highest honor due a human [Mary].


#6

[quote=E.E.N.S.]The 4th commandment says we are to honor our parents. We do not worship our parents. There is a difference.

Maybe you haven’t heard this before, but:

latria = worship due to God alone.
dulia = honor [due to saints].
hyperdulia = highest honor due a human [Mary].
[/quote]

I am a bit confused…I never said I worshipped my parents…I do HONOR them though :smiley: …I did state that I worshipped GOD!


#7

[quote=Karin]Lance…thank you for the invite to post on your thread. So let me be the first to say (since I am the gal you speak of) that I see Catholics as worshipping Mary. Perhaps you can be the one to set me straight and make me understand what i have been unable to for so many years.
Why worship or pray to Mary (and Saints) when I can pray directly to God? Does the Bible not say something to the extent of you should not worhsip idols? Or are these two seperate things?
[/quote]

First of all, don’t muslims ask others to pray for them. If you were ill would you hesitate to ask some Godly man or woman to add their prayers to yours.? We, as Catholics, believe that those who have passed on are more alive then we are. Afterall they are with God. But we also believe that they can hear us. That means that we can ask them to pray for and with us. I darkened the words for and with because Catholics do not pray to the saints, only to God. Does that make sense?


#8

[quote=Karin]Lance…thank you for the invite to post on your thread. So let me be the first to say (since I am the gal you speak of) that I see Catholics as worshipping Mary. Perhaps you can be the one to set me straight and make me understand what i have been unable to for so many years.
Why worship or pray to Mary (and Saints) when I can pray directly to God? Does the Bible not say something to the extent of you should not worhsip idols? Or are these two seperate things?
[/quote]

Hi! I’m not Lance, obviously, but I think I can help you with your questions, as Lance will no doubt do, too.

When Catholics worship God they are doing what was done throughout the history of God’s relationship with human beings. We offer a sacrifice. We read in Genesis that Abel offered an acceptable sacrifice to God, which was worship. Abraham offered acceptable sacrifice, which was worship. The descendants of Abraham offered acceptable sacrifices and the whole book of Leviticus is dedicated to the sacrifice established by Moses after the Exodus. The temple sacrifices continued on with only the Babylonian exile interrupting them into the time of Christ. Mary and Joseph offered an acceptable sacrifice as we read in the Gospels and Jesus established the sacrifice of his body and blood on Holy Thursday. We offer this one sacrifice of Christ on our altars at every Mass, and this is worship.

Prayer is not necessarily worship. It is when we offer sacrifice with it, but it isn’t when we merely ask for the intercession of the saints or for your intercession or anyone else’s. We don’t offer sacrifice to Mary or the saints. We only ask her aid and intercession, just as we would ask for aid and intercession from any other Christian or person of faith.

And we believe in the communion of saints because Jesus told us that those who have gone before us into heaven are not dead, but alive. Even the OT peoples’ souls were alive not dead. We know this because Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration during which they discussed with him his upcoming death in Jerusalem. If their souls were dead or asleep they certainly wouldn’t have known anything about it, but they did. We believe that the members of the Church are divided in to the Church Triumphant (those in heaven and purgatory, which is a part of heaven) and the Church Militant (the Church on earth fighting the good fight of good over evil by spreading the Gospel). I hope that helps you.


#9

[quote=deb1]First of all, don’t muslims ask others to pray for them. First lets get this out in the open…I am not a Muslim. I am sure that they do ask people to pray for them while sick etc


If you were ill would you hesitate to ask some Godly man or woman to add their prayers to yours.? **Dont know have never been in this position. **


We, as Catholics, believe that those who have passed on are more alive then we are. Afterall they are with God.
How can you know who is with God or not? I can understand that you assume they are with God…but no one knows for sure. Or am I wrong?


But we also believe that they can hear us. That means that we can ask them to pray for and with us. I darkened the words for and with because Catholics do not pray to the saints, only to God. Does that make sense?** So now you communicate with dead people??? I am totally confused here!!!**

[/quote]


#10

[quote=Karin]I am a bit confused…I never said I worshipped my parents…I do HONOR them though :smiley: …I did state that I worshipped GOD!
[/quote]

You stated that Catholics WORSHIP Mary and the saints even though it has been pointed out to you that we only HONOR them. I was explaining that there is a difference.


#11

[quote=E.E.N.S.]You stated that Catholics WORSHIP Mary and the saints even though it has been pointed out to you that we only HONOR them. I was explaining that there is a difference.
[/quote]

WOW…your post was written in a way that I took it to read “I worship my parents”…sorry for the misunderstanding.
You can tell me all sorts of things just as things are told to you do you always** UNDERSTAND** or **AGREE **with them?!?!?!


#12

[quote=Karin]Lance…thank you for the invite to post on your thread. So let me be the first to say (since I am the gal you speak of) that I see Catholics as worshipping Mary. Perhaps you can be the one to set me straight and make me understand what i have been unable to for so many years.
Why worship or pray to Mary (and Saints) when I can pray directly to God? Does the Bible not say something to the extent of you should not worhsip idols? Or are these two seperate things?
[/quote]

There is a thread called Why won’t Protestants call Mary “Mother of God” that goes thru most of the issues that will be repeated here. But you appear to be someone sincerely discerning and trying to reconcile what you currently hold as “truth” and the teachings of the Church. Why don’t you buy “Catholic and Christian” by ______ Schreck. It addresses not on the subject of this thread but some of the other issues you ahve raised on other threads.


#13

[quote=Della]Hi! I’m not Lance, obviously, but I think I can help you with your questions, as Lance will no doubt do, too.

When Catholics worship God they are doing what was done throughout the history of God’s relationship with human beings. We offer a sacrifice. We read in Genesis that Abel offered an acceptable sacrifice to God, which was worship. Abraham offered acceptable sacrifice, which was worship. The descendants of Abraham offered acceptable sacrifices and the whole book of Leviticus is dedicated to the sacrifice established by Moses after the Exodus. The temple sacrifices continued on with only the Babylonian exile interrupting them into the time of Christ. Mary and Joseph offered an acceptable sacrifice as we read in the Gospels and Jesus established the sacrifice of his body and blood on Holy Thursday. We offer this one sacrifice of Christ on our altars at every Mass, and this is worship.

Prayer is not necessarily worship. It is when we offer sacrifice with it, but it isn’t when we merely ask for the intercession of the saints or for your intercession or anyone else’s. We don’t offer sacrifice to Mary or the saints. We only ask her aid and intercession, just as we would ask for aid and intercession from any other Christian or person of faith.

And we believe in the communion of saints because Jesus told us that those who have gone before us into heaven are not dead, but alive. Even the OT peoples’ souls were alive not dead. We know this because Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration during which they discussed with him his upcoming death in Jerusalem. If their souls were dead or asleep they certainly wouldn’t have known anything about it, but they did. We believe that the members of the Church are divided in to the Church Triumphant (those in heaven and purgatory, which is a part of heaven) and the Church Militant (the Church on earth fighting the good fight of good over evil by spreading the Gospel). I hope that helps you.
[/quote]

Little more sense but now you raise more questions?!?!?!


#14

[quote=Karin]I am a bit confused…I never said I worshipped my parents…I do HONOR them though :smiley: …I did state that I worshipped GOD!
[/quote]

There is a difference between honoring and worshipping. Catholics honor Mary as the mother of Jesus, we don’t worship her.


#15

[quote=Karin]WOW…your post was written in a way that I took it to read “I worship my parents”…sorry for the misunderstanding.
You can tell me all sorts of things just as things are told to you do you always** UNDERSTAND** or **AGREE **with them?!?!?!
[/quote]

I didn’t mean you worship your parents, but for the sake of argument I am going to make a point here:

I can say that you worship your parents just as much as you can say Catholics worship Mary. (I think this is ridiculous, but this is your argument.)

On what grounds can you say that the Catholic Church teaches Marian worship??


#16

[quote=Karin]Little more sense but now you raise more questions?!?!?!
[/quote]

So, ask them! :smiley:


#17

[quote=deb1]There is a difference between honoring and worshipping. Catholics honor Mary as the mother of Jesus, we don’t orship her.
[/quote]

Yes we have covered that ground…I do know the difference between honor and worship. I also understand why you HONOR her…the issue that Della’s post has brought up now is you guys talk to dead people? Let me throw in here…I understand that truly we only know (IMHO) that God & Mary are in Heaven …how can you assume any of these other Saints are there, isnt that another big assumption?


#18

[quote=deb1] I darkened the words for and with because Catholics do not pray to the saints, only to God. Does that make sense?
[/quote]

Yes we do pray to Mary!!

You’ve falling into the same pit Protestants do (and these Musilims as well); you are confusing prayer with worship.

The verb “to pray” means to ask, to implore, to humbly request. The root word is the Latin precari , to ask or implore

People pray to each other all the time, for example, my son prayed to me the other night. He prayed that I would let him stay up late.

In Hamlet, Queen Gertrude prayed to Hamlet " I pray thee, go not to Whittenburg"

Was my son worshipping me when he prayed to me? Was Gertrude worshipping Hamlet?

NO

To Pray to does NOT equal To Worship. When a person asks their pastor (or imam) to pray for them, that very act, by definition is a prayer. They are praying to their pastor or imam.

To Pray and To Worship are two completely different verbs that mean different things.


#19

[quote=E.E.N.S.]I didn’t mean you worship your parents, but for the sake of argument I am going to make a point here:

I can say that you worship your parents just as much as you can say Catholics worship Mary. (I think this is ridiculous, but this is your argument.)

On what grounds can you say that the Catholic Church teaches Marian worship??
[/quote]

None of this is MY argument. I am just stating what I see or percieve.
Della:
Please see post #17


#20

[quote=Brendan]Yes we do pray to Mary!!

.
[/quote]

ARE YOU TRYING TO CONFUSE ME MORE???


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