Catholics, and Luther


#1

I’m curious. Are there things Catholics like about Martin Luther?

It seems to me he had many good qualities we can all appreciate.


#2

We should all love him and pray for him - he was made in God’s image,and he is one of God’s creatures like all of us.

As for his beliefs, there are some that we believe in, some we did not. I am not an expert on all his beliefs, I know some simple ones like his beliefs about the sale of indulgences was true. I heard on CA Live one day that there are reports that late in life he regretted the precedent he set that the individual could interpret the Bible for their own, as he lived long enough to see that every Tom Dick and Harry started their own denomination based on interpretations of the Bible he did not agree with.


#3

Didn’t Martin Luther venerate Mary? I might be wrong on this one but it seems that I read that he believed that she was eternally a virgen.


#4

Martin Luther was a very intelligent man in the Church. If he would have worked toward a Church reformation (instead of revolting against it entirely), he could have done a lot of good.


#5

I think its a double edge sword. I think Sola Fide and Sola Scripta are wrong, but on the other side he did prompt to get a bible in every God fearing hand, so that’s good.

emp.


#6

Nice to see there are still some people in this world who can see the good in people. Especially when that person did something so controversal.

Even anti-Catholics were touched by the display of Christian love Pope John Paul II showed the man who tried to kill him by visiting him in prison.


#7

[quote=empacae]I think its a double edge sword. I think Sola Fide and Sola Scripta are wrong, but on the other side he did prompt to get a bible in every God fearing hand, so that’s good.

emp.
[/quote]

emp, this is untrue. There were already vernacular translations around in Luther’s time which were approved by Rome. The main reason a Bible got into every hand was the printing press… which a Catholic invented. The first book printed on the European continent was the Bible.

God bless!


#8

Luther was a man who tried to do good, but often let sin overtake his desire to do good. Which led him to make up strawmen to attack the Catholic Church.
It is unfortunate that he did go to such extremes to justify his behaviour and I am sure many have prayed for the man. It is also as pointed out before a common misconception that the Bible wasn’t available before Luther in the vernacular.
I even heard on Christian radio 3 weeks ago that he discovered salvation by grace through faith, which kinda ignores the Council of Orange.
But Martin Luther for all his sinfullness, and vulgar language was a man who did try to do good, and Catholics nowdays are pretty charitable with him in trying to view him as a sinful man who was a product of terrible times.
speaking of founders of beliefs,
John Wesley compared to Martin Luther though is like water and mud in behaviour from what I have read of either one.

God Bless
Scylla


#9

[quote=Semper Fi]emp, this is untrue. There were already vernacular translations around in Luther’s time which were approved by Rome. The main reason a Bible got into every hand was the printing press… which a Catholic invented. The first book printed on the European continent was the Bible.

God bless!
[/quote]

Thanks SemperFi. I stand corrected.

btw, love the name…It’s the USMC motto, eh? (I’m Canadian) Always faithful, isn’t it?


#10

[quote=deb1]Didn’t Martin Luther venerate Mary? I might be wrong on this one but it seems that I read that he believed that she was eternally a virgen.
[/quote]

Im not sure about these qutoes, but this page was created by a Lutheran whom I have talked to and trust his words.
christianforums.com/t2725868-wiki-martin-luther.html
Here is what was posted:


Martin Luther never rejected many of the Catholic Churchhttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/wikilink.gif’s teachings on the Virgin Maryhttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/wikilink.gif.

Here are a few teachings from Luther on a verity of Marian subjects:

Mary, Ever Virgin"Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . “brothers” really means “cousins” here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers." (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4, 1537-39)

He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. (Ibid.)

Mary,Mother of God
God says . . . : “Mary’s Son is My only Son.” Thus Mary is the Mother of God. (Ibid.)

God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary’s Son, and that Mary is God’s mother . . . She is the true mother of God and bearer of God . . . Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus, not two Christs . . . just as your son is not two sons . . . even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone. (On the Councils and the Church, 1539)

Mary’s Immaculate Conceptionhttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/wikilink.gif

Despite it not being proclaimed as dogma in the Catholic Church until 1854, Luther accepted the teaching and often preached on the matter. “It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin.” -
(Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” December ?] 1527; from Hartmann Grisar, S.J., Luther, authorised translation from the German by E.M. Lamond; edited by Luigi Cappadelta, London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner, first edition, 1915, Vol. IV [of 6], p. 238; taken from the German Werke, Erlangen, 1826-1868, edited by J.G. Plochmann and J.A. Irmischer, 2nd ed. edited by L. Enders, Frankfurt, 1862 ff., 67 volumes; citation from 152, p. 58)

“She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil.” - (Luther’s Personal {“Little”} Prayer Book, 1522)

(CONT)


#11

*(CONT)

  • Assumption of Mary

    In his sermon of August 15, 1522, the last time he preached on the Feast of the Assumption, he stated:"There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ."Veneration of Mary (Honoring Mary)
    “The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.” (Sermon, September 1, 1522)

“[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.” (Sermon, Christmas, 1531)

“No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity.” (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537)

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. - (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521)

Mary, the “Spiritual Mother” for Christians"It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother, Christ is his brother, God is his father." - (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)

"Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. " - (Sermon, Christmas, 1529)

On the “Hail Mary”
“Whoever possesses a good faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation.” - (Sermon, March 11, 1523)

"Our prayer should include the Mother of God . . . What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: “Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!” You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor . . . We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her . . . He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary. - (Personal Prayer Book, 1522)




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