Catholics are bigots?!


#1

On 12 Apr CA Live posted a video on Youtube titled "How to confront anti-Catholicism".

Tim Staples said that people were calling anyone who was against gay 'marriage' bigots. This is a problem, but Tim's reply was that we are being persecuted simply for saying what we believe.

I think we shouldn't use that reasoning. The people who were against giving equal rights to African Americans back in the 50s and 60s came up with the same defence; that they were labelled bigots for their beliefs.

The world sees it as religion trying to enter the secular world everytime we speak up against gay 'marriages'; we are 'forcing' our religion on others.

This is the current perception of the situation; that the religious are forcing religion, and let me tell you that it is the most popularly held global perception.

If we really want to turn this tide, we need to realise this fact and tailor all responses, arguments and rejection of the concept of gay 'marriage' from a religious stand point to one based more from a secular point of view.

We need to provide strong solid reasons as to why we are against preventing people we don't know from doing what they want. The world, sincerely, CANNOT understand why we are against this other than because we believe the bible says it's wrong. The result? Christianity is seen as archaic and Catholics, bigots.

So we really need to do our best to change that perception.


#2

[quote="LaSalle, post:1, topic:280936"]
On 12 Apr CA Live posted a video on Youtube titled "How to confront anti-Catholicism".

Tim Staples said that people were calling anyone who was against gay 'marriage' bigots. This is a problem, but Tim's reply was that we are being persecuted simply for saying what we believe.

I think we shouldn't use that reasoning. The people who were against giving equal rights to African Americans back in the 50s and 60s came up with the same defence; that they are being deemed as bigots for their beliefs.

The world sees it as religion trying to enter the secular world everytime we speak up against gay 'marriages'; we are 'forcing' our religion on others.

This is the current perception of the situation; that the religious are forcing religion, and let me tell you that it is the most popularly held global perception.

If we really want to turn this tide, we need to realise this fact and tailor all responses, arguments and rejection of the concept of gay 'marriage' from a religious stand point to one based more from a secular point of view.

We need to provide strong solid reasons as to why we are against preventing people we don't know from doing what they want. The world, sincerely, CANNOT understand why we are against this other than because we believe the bible says it's wrong. The result? Christianity is seen as archaic and Catholics, bigots.

So we really need to do our best to change that perception.

[/quote]

What they want is to have their sexual habits endorsed by the state. There is no compelling public interest in sodomy sufficient to justify their demand that it be subsidized.

I think that's a pretty sound argument.


#3

The ‘public intertest’ is the recognition of ‘equal rights’.

They have managed to peg it with rights. So … we are now denying their …rights.


#4

[quote="LaSalle, post:3, topic:280936"]
The 'public intertest' is the recognition of 'equal rights'.

They have managed to peg it with rights. So .. we are now denying their ....rights.

[/quote]

Only if they claim the right to make a word mean something it has never meant in all of history.

I think the real solution is to get the government out of the marriage business entirely, at least until the ongoing madness of the west has burned itself out. Let government enforce contracts, but get out of the covenant business.


#5

Well, I guess they’re celebrating … because they’ve suceeded.


#6

All this madness is happening, at such a rapid pace, and on so many issues
directly contrary to the explicit commands of God
BECAUSE
((and please note that I am speaking of society COLLECTIVELY,
and am not speaking of INDIVIDUALS, which would be way out of line))
again, all this is happening, all at once, in so many areas of out and out
ANTI-GOD behaviors and laws,
BECAUSE
SOCIETY, collectively, in the West,
has Blasphemed the Holy Spirit and he, frankly,
appears to have departed from our governing institutions, organizations,
courts, etc., so that there is NO LONGER ANY Divine Restraint on
these people’s behavior.
THAT is no laughing matter, folks, because when the Holy Spirit ceases to
restrain a Society, and it is seen to be plunging into greater and greater and
bolder and bolder depravity, that has, always, 100% of the time in history,
been a surefire harbinger that God, either Directly or indirectly through human means,
is just about to Destroy that Society, and nothing, nothing, nothing can stop that from happening unless a huge number of people turn to God in fervent prayer for his mercy on that Society and his re-conversion of it’s people.
Otherwise, the destruction of that Society is absolutely, 100% certainly SURE to come, and come relatively soon, and again, nothing short of massive prayer and massive repentance, can stave it off.
This is very serious. Once the Spirit removes all restraint,
and it appears He has done so, there is nothing that Society won’t do,
and it’s always been a surefire harbinger of the IMMINENT destruction of that Society or nation or nations.


#7

I wouldn't want to use such inflammatory language as "bigots". But, to deny that your opinion on the matter is based more on your personal feelings of the issue than doctrine or scripture is a lie to people and yourselves. The reason this is true is because it has become a crusade. It's beyond the church. You've taken it public. Regardless of the religious affiliations of the public, or the lack thereof, doctrine has no relevance or place in the discussion in a free society. A society where the state is free of theology. In a country where liberty is the standard, the debate is one of public safety and human rights. Not doctrine or dogma. And any attempt to argue a point based upon religious beliefs is automatically dismissed as personal prejudice.


#8

[quote="sw85, post:2, topic:280936"]
What they want is to have their sexual habits endorsed by the state. There is no compelling public interest in sodomy sufficient to justify their demand that it be subsidized.

I think that's a pretty sound argument.

[/quote]

who is "THEY"

and i believe the OP posted about gay marriage not sodomy or sexual habits

marriage, you know the commitment to one forever... that thing

:thumbsup:


#9

[quote="Jaypeeto4, post:6, topic:280936"]
All this madness is happening, at such a rapid pace, and on so many issues
directly contrary to the explicit commands of God
BECAUSE
((and please note that I am speaking of society COLLECTIVELY,
and am not speaking of INDIVIDUALS, which would be way out of line))
again, all this is happening, all at once, in so many areas of out and out
ANTI-GOD behaviors and laws,
BECAUSE
SOCIETY, collectively, in the West,
has Blasphemed the Holy Spirit and he, frankly,
appears to have departed from our governing institutions, organizations,
courts, etc., so that there is NO LONGER ANY Divine Restraint on
these people's behavior.
THAT is no laughing matter, folks, because when the Holy Spirit ceases to
restrain a Society, and it is seen to be plunging into greater and greater and
bolder and bolder depravity, that has, always, 100% of the time in history,
been a surefire harbinger that God, either Directly or indirectly through human means,
is just about to Destroy that Society, and nothing, nothing, nothing can stop that from happening unless a huge number of people turn to God in fervent prayer for his mercy on that Society and his re-conversion of it's people.
Otherwise, the destruction of that Society is absolutely, 100% certainly SURE to come, and come relatively soon, and again, nothing short of massive prayer and massive repentance, can stave it off.
This is very serious. Once the Spirit removes all restraint,
and it appears He has done so, there is nothing that Society won't do,
and it's always been a surefire harbinger of the IMMINENT destruction of that Society or nation or nations.

[/quote]

wow gay people getting married is going to 100% cause the destruction of society............

and what do you mean by divine restraint? are you implying the United states government?

"destruction of Nation or Nations"..... we are just talking about people getting married right....civily............ not sacramentally...right


#10

I wish I could say you were wrong about this, but I agree 100%.

…And when our time comes, we won’t be able to say that God hadn’t given our society many, many chances to turn away from sin. The socially conservative presidential candidate who just recently dropped out of the race might have been God’s last chance for our society to get off this road to hell.

God have mercy on us all. We all need to be praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet as often as we can.


#11

Marriage (as an institution of a bond between a man and a woman) has been recognized by every human society since the beginning of civilization. The institution of marriage is FAR older than the Catholic (or even the Jewish) Church. It has been continually recognized in regions which were never formed in Judeo-Christian belief. It has been continually recognized (as a man-woman bond) in societies which were largely tolerant of homosexual behavior (such as ancient Greece).

There is a REASON why each and every human society has recognized the institution of marriage. It’s not because all of humanity has been bigoted. It is because the State recognizes that the family unit (man, woman, and offspring) are the very foundation of society. Without this union, the most powerful empire would fall in a single generation.

Thus, it is universally beneficial and desirable for every nation to recognize the institution of marriage, and to promote it. The State is doing nobody any “favors” out of any sort of “bias” - the State is protecting its own self interest.

There has been no compelling evidence to suggest that equal recognition of homosexual unions is of any benefit whatsoever to society. Maybe it IS beneficial - but it has not been demonstrated. It is not plainly apparent (as is heterosexual union).

This headlong rush to equate homosexual and heterosexual unions is contrary to the sum total of all human wisdom up to this age - and is clearly opposed to the concept of Common Law (the principles upon which our nation (USA) was founded - the Declaration of Independence is a statement of Common Law).

It has nothing to do with bigotry. It has everything to do with the State enacting laws based upon principles that are clearly in the interest of society at large. That is the duty and responsibility of a just State.

Anything else is simply corruption.


#12

[quote="mab23, post:9, topic:280936"]
wow gay people getting married is going to 100% cause the destruction of society............

[/quote]

I recommend that you read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.


#13

**A society where the state is free of theology. In a country where liberty is the standard, the debate is one of public safety and human rights. Not doctrine or dogma. **

That may be your atheistic view,
but as any implied claim that this is the intent behind the First Amendment, it is
100% false.
That amendment was intended, solely and exclusively,
to PREVENT the government from choosing, from among the denominations,
one of them and making IT a State Religion, as was done in England with the former Catholic Church in England, now known as the Church of England, established as
the State Religion,
as well as to utterly and absolutely PREVENT the government from sticking it’s nose into the doctrines and practices of ANY of the Religious Denominations or force any or all of them to disobey their own doctrines, beliefs or mores, which by the way the HHS mandate is deliberately intending to do, and is breaking the Law by doing so.
It, the 1st Amendment, was never intended in any way to rule out Theology or Morality based upon it,
from influencing public policy.
Those who claim differently are lying through their teeth.
To understand the Intent of the Amendment, all one needs to do,
in order to understand the intent with infallible accuracy, is READ the contemporaneous
writings, on these subjects, of the WRITERS and SIGNERS of the 1st Amendment.
They were not opposed, at all, in any way, shape, form or fashion,
to Christian morality influencing the writing of our laws and policies. The ONLY
American truly involved at a high level in our Revolution, who was openly hostile to Christianity, was Thomas Paine. The others, many of whom were Masons and not Christians at all, were not at all hostile to this.

As for the mistaken (rightwing) Christians’ belief, today, that the Founding Fathers were all evangelical orthodox Christians, that really IS an error, a GROSS error, David Barton’s many videos notwithstanding. For proof, just look at the capitol buiding in D.C.
There is a huge depiction, one which I personally saw many times, looking right at it,
but being very young, didn’t know what it meant.
It is called THE APOTHEOSIS OF WASHINGTON.
The APOTHEOSIS of Washington !!
That means, literally, George Washington’s Exaltation to Full God-hood.

This idolatrous depiction is right-smack-dab in the middle of the capitol building
of our supposedly “Christian” Nation.

THAT is proof that many of America’s founders were NOT orthodox Christians.
They weren’t hostile, but they CERTAINLY weren’t orthodox Christians by any stretch,
because NO orthodox protestant, Catholic, or EO would ever be party to
declaring the APOTHEOSIS of ANY mere man.
Even in Eastern Orthodoxy, with their misunderstood teaching of Divinization,
their theologians would NEVER stand for such a claim as this, the APOTHEOSIS
of ANY mere man. This is a belief and claim that stems from men greatly influenced by idolatrous and pagan ideas. Were SOME of the founding fathers Christians? YES.
Were MOST of them so? NO.
Jaypeeto4


#14

**wow gay people getting married is going to 100% cause the destruction of society…

and what do you mean by divine restraint? are you implying the United states government?

“destruction of Nation or Nations”… we are just talking about people getting married right…civily… not sacramentally…right **

I cannot believe, seriously, the appalling lack of common sense even among otherwise-sincere people in our nation today.
My post was very clear about Divine Restraint. The Holy Spirit, the breath and power of God Almighty, normally restrains nations from rushing headlong into public embrace of immoral, grossly immoral, activity. Our nation at all levels of Government, not just the Federal Government, is now openly condoning what the LORD utterly forbids ALL human beings, Christian or not, Catholic or not, Jewish or not, pagan or not, from Committing.
It does not matter if they marry only “non-sacramentally.” Marriage is a sacrament and elevated to such by Jesus Himself, ONLY for baptized Christians. By the way, Protestants ARE sacramentally married, being baptized and in the New Covenant, whether they realize it, admit it, accept it, or not. Their marriages ARE sacramental.

NOW. Way back in the mists of preHistory when human beings first came on the scene, the LORD ordained that men and women would marry and bring forth offspring in family units. That was His will for all the races of humankind. It was done. In all cultures. All cultures, even those that became pagan and polytheistic, recognized marriage between men and women ---- and ONLY between men and women, Even ancient Greece and Rome, which often condoned and encouraged homosexual behavior, especially RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EMPIRES COLLAPSED – never allowed for homosexual MARRIAGES.
This is sink to a new low of sin that even THOSE pagans never dreamed of sinking to, and they were already collapsing.

“Gay marriage” alone will not cause the collapse of America. It is one of many, many areas in which our governments, both local, state, and federal, are embracing and condoning what God explicitly warns that you and I CANNOT practice and enter the Kingdom of God. If we practice these immoral acts, we will lose our salvation just as surely as if we commit deliberate, habitual, unrepented thievery. Homosexuality isn’t the only issue, and the church isn’t picking on homosexuals, but Gay “Marriage,” using the etherial and elastic notion of equality as it basis, is THE moral issue being forced on society by militants, and the church is not allowed, by GOD, to remain silent. She had better not, or He will punish HER too, for not warning people not to do this. YOUR blood will be on HER hands. He says so explicitly, in many scriptures, including Ezekiel.

The Holy Spirit has, apparently, stopped restraining the West’s headlong rush into apostasy and total sin. We are putting people in jail for stealing, when the adulterers and fornicators and blasphemers who prosecute, condemn, and sentence them, deserve, under God’s perfect Law, to be judicially punished with the Death Penalty for these and other NOW-SOCIALLY-ACCEPTABLE Crimes against God and humanity. Make no mistake: ACTS of Sin are Crimes, even if the State doesn’t go after those deeds. They still ARE. Nobody is exempt, nobody is going to “get away with” ANYTHING we don’t repent of. We can deceive ourselves, and millions of American so-called “liberals” have deceived themselves, into believing that they are not going to face a serious judgment for these things. “Rightwingers,” too, have convinced themselves, some of them, that their support of the super-rich paying garbage-low wages, NON-Living wages, to hardworking people, isn’t going to get THEM into any trouble with God either. Both are VERY, VERY mistaken. For the latter, they need to remember that to deny a worker his just wages (God did not mean denying him an unjust wage, but obviously a just wage) is, like sodomy and murder, yes like murder, a SIN THAT CRIES TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE.
It seems today, seemingly, that the Holy Spirit has stopped restraining evil on the part of BOTH SIDES of the political coin. This is a very, very, very bad omen, and we really SHOULD start praying the Divine Mercy every day, for forgiveness and grace, for all this stuff and for all our countrymen and women, straight, gay, rich, poor, what have you, as often as we can.
Jaypeeto4


#15

just did a few days ago - as Im reading the bible front to back and started about a week or so ago.

and you have to understand that was a different time, and the same things don’t apply

but the state recognizing homosexual marriages , isn’t the same thing as the whole state being corrupted by sin and having wild gay sex parties, and gay rape


#16

**I agree with most if not all of this!

but your first post was rather extreme in regards to the original post
**


#17

No this is not my "Atheistic point of view. It’s the law. It’s the beauty of the separation of church and state. Don’t forget, the church is sovereign in the Unites States. It’s separate. You should read what John Adams had to say about religion when you start saying things like this country was created to be a religious state. Because it simply isn’t true. The people who came here wanted freedom from religion and the church has taken this country back. That’s what this battle ultimately is going to do. Put the church back in it’s place. In the church and homes of it’s parishioners and out of the government and courts.


#18

If we warn someone of his sin, and he doesn´t turn from it, then we have done all we can outside of prayer. Telling someone why we believe something does not make a person a bigot. Believing another sinner is less than we sinners, is bigotry. God bless:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


#19

The same “things” don’t apply. What does that mean? Believe it or not the Catholic church is still using the bible. Scripture is read everyday at mass. Romans 1:26-27 hasn’t been removed.

The problem with reading the bible “front to back” is that it lowers the level of study on particular passages and downplays reflection. Spend some time at Roman chapter one and you may realize a “different time” has no bearing on homosexual behavior, nor heterosexual behavior as well.


#20

The proponents of gay ‘marriage’ will not deny that hetero marriage is the bedrock of civilization. They are not proposing that we destroy hetero marriage, they’re just proposing the legalization of gay ‘marriage’.

It is not clear exactly how promoting gay ‘marriage’ automatically destroys hetero marriage. I have not seen a good argument for this assumption.

Also, just because gay ‘marriages’ were not recognized before is no reason to continue ignoring it. After all, prior to the abolishment of slavery, the practice of slavery was common place in human history. How would abolishing the ban on gay ‘marriage’ be any different?

True, but again, this is not an abolishment of hetero marriages.

… and the state can continue to do this, however, there will come a time when protecting its own self interest will mean allowing gay ‘marriages’.

There benefit may not be direct, but by allowing it the govt will profit from it indirectly; economically, social standing etc. Remember - the gay population would not get into hetero marriages anyway. They are not contributing to the increase in population any way.

They would argue that the human wisdom thus far has not been enlightened.

There will come a time when it won’t be in the interest of the state to remain ‘bigoted’ against gays. I know you know what I mean here.


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