Catholics, help me with this


#1

So I am on this other forum quite a bit, andyesterday this guy posts this:

So, we all have a boat. That boat is generally called the U.S.S. (or R.M.S./H.M.S.) Doctrine. It may look pretty, but will yours float? In other words, will your beliefs withstand biblical doctrine, despite how “right” they seem to you? Obviously, dont’ insult us by saying, “I’m an Atheist/Buddhist/Whatever that doesn’t believe in God, so of course they won’t!” Don’t waste our time. This is a thread for professing Christians to check their beliefs against God’s Word.

I’m going to ask you to describe, completely in your own words, your beliefs on some basic doctrines. Don’t quote or reference ANYTHING. Then we’re going to take an unbiased look at what Scripture has to say about it.

So, give your opinions on:

The Scriptures
What are “Scriptures”? Who wrote them? What good are they?

God
Who/what is God, and what is its purpose?

Mankind
Who/what is Mankind, and what is their purpose?

Salvation
What is salvation, and how does one experience it? What is required for “salvation” (by your definition), if anything?

Grace
What is grace, and how does one experience it? What is required for “grace” (by your definition), if anything?

The Church
What is the “Church”? What is its purpose, and what is required to be a part of it?

Baptism
What is baptism? Why is it important? Is it important? What are the requirements for “baptism” (by your definition)?

Lord’s Supper
What is the Lord’s Supper (Communion)? Why is it important? Is it important? What are the requirements for “the Lord’s Supper” (by your definition)?

The Lord’s Day
What is the Lord’s Day (Sabbath)? Why is it important? Is it important? Are we required to observe it still? If so, how? If not, why not?

Note: this thread is open to all those who would consider themselves Christians, whether you know I would agree or not (i.e., Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, Protestants, Charismatics, Evangelicals, etc.).

As you can see it’s very lengthy and in depth, requiring answers that are even more lengthy and in depth (esp. from a Catholic perspective). I really want to respond, but it would probably take me a year to compile the answers by myself, that’s why I’m coming to you guys to ask for help. I know I am going to get flamed by them, but I feel I should respond since I’m so active on their forum…

Thanks in advance for your replies! :smiley:


#2

All you need is a one sentence response. Link him to: The Catechism of the Catholic Church and let him sort it out for himself. :wink: After all, no one is obligated to do another’s research for him.


#3

[quote=Della]All you need is a one sentence response. Link him to: The Catechism of the Catholic Church and let him sort it out for himself. :wink: After all, no one is obligated to do another’s research for him.
[/quote]

Well, I don’t think he’s wanting us to post our views as research for him. He answered as to his own opinion in a following post. He requested that we use no references for our beliefs.

Here were his answers:

The Scriptures
What are “Scriptures”? Who wrote them? What good are they?

The Scriptures are those books that are inspired by the Holy Spirit, penned by men, which are useful for learning how to live righteously. They compliment each other, without error or partial truth. Most importantly, they compliment and point to the character of Jesus the Christ. These books are commonly known as “The Holy Bible,” and do not include the Books of the Mormon religion or the Catholic Apocrypha.

God
Who/what is God, and what is its purpose?

God is the Supreme Being over all creation, which He Himself created. He manifests Himself as male in the Scriptures (as defined above) and in the person of Jesus the Christ. The third entity of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit, is non-gendered in its manifestation, and usually presents itself invisibly, or in the form of an animal (i.e., dove) or energy byproduct (i.e., fire and wind). These three entities of the Godhead, commonly known as the Trinity, are completely seperate and yet integral to each other. God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Spirit, through a method which is beyond the human capacity for understanding.

Mankind
Who/what is Mankind, and what is their purpose?

Mankind is the creation of God (as defined above), and should live to serve Him. However, Mankind is also severely corrupted through Sin, which is falling short of God’s standards presented in Scripture and in the conscience of individuals.

Salvation
What is salvation, and how does one experience it? What is required for “salvation” (by your definition), if anything?

Salvation is the term used for the process of being saved from eternal punishment for Sin. Salvation applies only to humans who choose to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross as the atoning sacrifice for their sins, and for those who also accept Christ’s deity and lordship over their lives.

Grace
What is grace, and how does one experience it? What is required for “grace” (by your definition), if anything?

Grace is God’s unmerited favor toward members of Mankind. Grace is not extended toward all members of mankind, nor is it applicable for those who are not under salvation.

The Church
What is the “Church”? What is its purpose, and what is required to be a part of it?

The Church is those members of the Body of Christ who have accepted the requirements for salvation.

Baptism
What is baptism? Why is it important? Is it important? What are the requirements for “baptism” (by your definition)?

Baptism is an act of obedience through submersion in water after having received the baptism of the Holy Spirit through confession and prayer. No particular method is necessary for baptism, because it is strictly symbology and is not required for salvation.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes through confession and prayer.

Lord’s Supper
What is the Lord’s Supper (Communion)? Why is it important? Is it important? What are the requirements for “the Lord’s Supper” (by your definition)?

The Lord’s Supper, like baptism, is an outward symbol of one’s remembrance of a particular event. In this case, that event is the death and resurrection of Christ. The bread remains bread, and the substance used to symbolize blood remains that substance; they do not turn to the blood or flesh of Jesus the Christ.

The Lord’s Day
What is the Lord’s Day (Sabbath)? Why is it important? Is it important? Are we required to observe it still? If so, how? If not, why not?

The Sabbath is a day taken from the week to remember the Lord and focus on Him. We are not required to not work on Sunday, but rather to take time to remember Him.

Note: In examining these beliefs, we will take them one doctrine at a time. We will deal with the first doctrine first, then once the various viewpoints are examined, we will move to the second doctrine.


#4

A few of those are very sad. I see the salvation thing a lot. If only they knew that salvation is not merely saving us FROM Hell, but saving us FOR God’s family, their view would drastically change. Familial theology sets the Church apart from all others, for it is the clear context of Scripture and Church history.


#5

i’d ask him who compiled the scripture… and decided on
the canon… i’d ask him why virtually every bible printed
until 1875 contained the deuterocanonical books…
i’d ask him why some bible use the Hebrew OT books
that were compiled after Christ died…

ask him to show you in scripture where baptism is
said to be symbolic…

i’d ask him first to show me in scripture where it says
that the bread remains bread, and the wine remains
wine at the last supper…

:slight_smile:


#6

Bump!


#7

[quote=RCCDefender]Well, I don’t think he’s wanting us to post our views as research for him. He answered as to his own opinion in a following post. He requested that we use no references for our beliefs.

Here were his answers:
[/quote]

I must not have conveyed that I was being more than a little facetious. No one should have to answer lengthy questions like this because someone wants others to go to a lot of bother just so he can have fodder for debate. I wouldn’t do it and I don’t see any reason for you to, either. If he wants to know what the Church teaches, not just what Catholics think they know of their own Church’s teachings, he should read the Catechism. And if he only wants to know what Catholic say about the teachings of the Church he ought to have the good manners to bring up one subject at a time instead of trying to look smart by shooting buckshot questions at people of faith for him to evaluate and make comments on–more than likely ignorant comments if past experience tells me anything.


#8

[quote=RCCDefender]So I am on this other forum quite a bit, andyesterday this guy posts this:

As you can see it’s very lengthy and in depth, requiring answers that are even more lengthy and in depth (esp. from a Catholic perspective). I really want to respond, but it would probably take me a year to compile the answers by myself, that’s why I’m coming to you guys to ask for help. I know I am going to get flamed by them, but I feel I should respond since I’m so active on their forum…

Thanks in advance for your replies! :smiley:
[/quote]

Question, is he going to give an answer for you to evaluate against scripture or is it a one way thing? We can tackle every single topic but one at a time because one topic, take for example the first one, will take a lot of debate already. If it is something that you think is important then I would give an answer to every question one at a time.


#9

[quote=RCCDefender]Well, I don’t think he’s wanting us to post our views as research for him. He answered as to his own opinion in a following post. He requested that we use no references for our beliefs.

Here were his answers:
[/quote]

Without question you need to stick to the question - what exactly are the Scriptures, where did we get them(ie how did God choose to reveal them to us) and who if, anyone, has the authority to interpret them? Without the foundation of what Scripture is and what it is not, it is pointless trying to argue interpretations - who ultimately decides which interptetation “floats”?

What is the exact thread?

PHil


#10

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