I just read an article on abcnews.com about this Catholic based city in Florida, which the man who started Dominoes pizza, is founding. ABC nicknamed the city “Bibletown USA” since it is founded on Christian values.
Well, one person responded to the article, saying that “Bibletown USA” was a misnomer because Catholics don’t follow the bible and that catholicism is a sort of paganized christianity. He also said that Catholics don’t follow Christ, and so we really aren’t Christians.
I’m just wondering how in the world protestants can say that Catholics aren’t Christians. Anyone who has studied history knows that the Catholic church was the church of the early christians - the church started by Jesus Christ. So it just astounds me when protestants - who broke off from the catholic church, can now say that catholics are not christian.
Your observation contains the seed of an answer to your question about these extremists (who embarrass my Protestant friends, I might add). You mention history.They don’t know history, it’s just that simple. For them, the “church” began when their own founder broke off from whatever offshoot he had been a part of to form their sect. Few of the extremists trace back to the Church herself, and began as splinter groups from others who had left her. Some have even come up with fictional history – the reference to imported pagan practises in the Church are part of that fiction – but that “history” is so bogus that it’s just laughable.
Some of these groups can get downright nasty, so be careful. No need to harm them, but sometimes they must simply be cut off cold when they start on Catholics. Many who hold this “Catholics aren’t Christian” view get their identity from their hatred of the Church, and although hating them back is never appropriate, they sometimes have to be handled like unstable explosives.
If one wanted a very good insight into these extremists, I recomment Karl K’s book “Catholics and Fundamentalists.” It presents where they are coming from, where they went wrong, and outlines how to respond to them. But not all will be open to hearing a response.
I agree that the appropriate response to these Catholic-haters is not to hate them back. Privately, I find them so profoundly ignorant, not only of the Catholic faith, but also of their own, that I question the usefulness in talking to them at all. Even armed with an array of appropriate responses to their charges, I don’t know that I would have the fortitude to engage such persons in a discussion. I suspect I would quickly end any discussion with the promise to pray for them.
One of the more remarkable things about this anti-Catholic fantasy, I think, is that true non-Christians think they’re crazy. I have personally witnessed this. In the situation I witnessed, a Fundamentalist made a comment about someone being non-Christian, then a Conservative Jew asked what religion this so-called non-Christian was and when the Fundamentalist answered “Catholic”, the Jewish person got this look on their face that told you they were wondering what planet the Fundamentalist was from.
These anti-Catholics are, of course, secure in their belief, but they don’t take into account that they live in a little bubble surrounded by people who think as they do. But the world sees it another way. To the world in general, “Christian” is represented by the Catholic church, and personally represented by the Pope. And while the world at large may be dimly aware of other types of Christians, the Catholic church represents Christianity to them.
Hi True Believer, I am a protestant. Basically, these groups have their own christianease language and frankly catholics don’t speak their language. If an English speaker were to visit say French part of Canada, the people there will know you are not French as soon as you open your mouth and speak English.
Basically, they consider one to be a Christian who is born again of the Spirit of God. One who has the Son living in our heart.
You need to learn their language so that you can communicate your relationship, life with Christ himself in your life.
At the fowlerville fair, my wife recently heard a conversation at a “do you want to go to heaven?” you need only answer two questions booth. The person who as talking with them was a pastor that my wife knew, and by their language he was not going to heaven because he could not put his experience within the narrow confides of their questions. They were basically, looking for people to name a date and time that they were born of the spirit. This pastor was raised in a christian home and as such could not name a date and time he was born again.
I suppose one could give the date of their baptism. That may not be the answer these people are looking for, but it is a date, and the sacrament of baptism endows you with certain gifts.
Having said that, I would not engage such persons in any discussion of religion, for reasons already given. They are profoundly ignorant of their own religion, not just mine and any such discussion would be pointless.
I have heard this many times from members of my family. Funny thing is that my parents have close friends who are Catholic, and I have yet to hear them tell these friends that they are not Christian. I’ve tried in my small way to educate my family about the Catholic Church, but sadly family members are the last to hear you. Good thing we’re in good company as I recall our Lord had similar reactions in Nazarath.
The guy who founded Dominoes is such as wonderful Catholic in terms of putting money where his faith is. I think Ave Maria University and Law school is in the process of moving to its permanent home in Florida.
It is great to see strong Catholics like him and General Peter Pace (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) and traditional Catholics at that. I used to subscribe to the update on Catholic Schools (Newman society) and it was sad to see how far some had drifted from their roots. God bless Benedict and he steer the Catholic ship onto a more traditional course (cracking down on annulments, gay clergy issues, etc).
PS Peter Pace displayed remarkable dignity when Gates was obvisouly trying to force him out (I think his remarks on homsexulity as immoral and the uprorar that followed had a lot to do with it). Gates offered to allow him to resign and he said no, he would finish his time out and Gates could choose not to renominate him but that he did not want to affect the morale of troops by resigning. Very impressive…just like his stellar military career.
This smells the same as the Catholics say to JWs that they are not Christians; and the JWs say that they(JWs) are the only Christians.
Ahmadi Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus is a messenger from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God’s words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God. Ahmadi Muslims also believe that though Jesus was put on Cross but those who put him on the Cross with the intention of killing him on it never succeeded in their intention, nor Jesus ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross. The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died a natural and peaceful death in Kashmir
“They have persecuted Me and they will persecute you”
…cant say we weren’t warned…and “love your enemy and do good to those that persecute and calumniate you”…
I was reading a letter from one of the Father’s of The Church the other day in the Office of Readings who was under persecution and exile. I was truly struck by the humility and charity of that letter with not a word of condemnation for his persecuters. Any sort of persecution I think is akin to a "mini type of martyrdom " (in that category) and is a crown to be envied…if only I could reach that stage! There always have been and probably almost always will be those who “persecute” and we are asked to do good to them and to love them. “Doing good” and “loving another” are many sided coins and I think involve motivation.
I agree that the appropriate response to these Catholic-haters is not to hate them back.
I agree that to hate them would be wrong. However, I think it is just as wrong NOT to defend your Catholic faith.
I see so much anti-catholicism these days, I would say that it’s the last acceptable predudice.
Can you imagine what the Muslims would do if someone said ANYTHING, no matter how small, against their religion? There would be an outcry. People would be labelled as bigots and racists!
When someone says anything against the Catholic Church, the majority of Catholic’s do nothing.
This is wrong. People should stard DEFENDING their faith against the protestants. Afterall, the Catholic Church is the one true chuch founded by God. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. A lot of Catholics have forgotten this church teaching because they’re afraid that it offends members of other religions. So what. Truth is Truth. It’s not relative.
Catholics are definitely Christian. Indeed, they are the ORIGINAL Christians. They are STILL Christians, indeed some would say they are what REMAIN as Christians after almost 2000 years. There are many views.
But there is one truth ~ Our church was founded by the Lord Jesus Christ and the church of today is the same as the one He founded, we even practice the same rituals today, those that He founded, nearly 2000 years later.
Sometimes it is very difficult to remain civil/charitable when faced with these questions, such as whether Catholics are Christian. This is because those persons that pose such questions display such a total absence of information not only of the Catholic faith, but also of their own faith. There is a great deal of ignorance rampant today among those that claim to be Christian.
Perhaps, Paarsurrey, you live in another country, other than the USA, I don’t know, but here in the USA there are many congregations that call themselves “Christian” and many of them find fault with some or ALL other churches, other than their own, based on some point or another of doctrine. Some of them contend that all others are going to hell.
I do not believe in accordance with such congregations. I will make that clear first. When I say this, I am not speaking for the Catholic faith, only of my own personal belief, although I know that the Catholic church has a policy about such faiths, I am just not spelling it out here precisely. But I also trust that the Catholic faith is not so narrow as to exclude people in the way that some of these faiths purport to do.
But separate and apart from that above, we believe differently, you and I. I believe that Jesus was more than a prophet, he was God incarnate, in the form of a Man, while on Earth, while you believe He was simply a prophet. I hope you will come to believe more than that.
HI Dempsey, I think all you have to say is very true; however we are called to love our “enemies” and I dont mean by this wishy washy interaction. Very often when confronted with virulent anti-Catholicism there is a knee jerk reaction with equal virulence. A heated argument usually will ensue which is anything but constructive and if anything will only increase the rancour and bigotry re Catholicism and hence is an entirely destructive interaction. Confronted with anti-Catholicism if one can pause for a moment, just a second, and invoke the Holy Spirit and decide “What is the best in this situation?”(this is what I meant by “motivation” in my previous post: to choose to act in the best interests of the situation) - “Truth without love is only a half truth”…sometimes one is aware one is confronted with a bigot and the best reaction is perhaps to quietly say that he/she “of course has the right to express an opinion, however I need disagree with it. I am a Catholic.” Sometimes we seem to know that we are confronted with a calm open minded person and our response can differ. What is always going to speak far louder than anything we have to say is the person we are. Not only this the person we are is the other half of Truth completing it. Over and above that, we remain human and faulted and there are times when indeed we do knee jerk react and hence react in a way that is anything but reasoned and constructive and in this type of mistake of course, forgiveness of God is asked for. And God will always forgive knowing well our weaknesses - He shared in them!
I think that we need to try to remember in times given to prayer to ask the Holy Spirit to make evangelists of us and to constantly remind us that we are all without exemption God’s children beloved by Him and for Him He became incarnated and died. We need to ask for an increase in the gifts of The Holy Spirit and to bear the fruits of this. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit conferred at Confirmation are:
Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Knowledge, Fortitude, Piety and Fear of The Lord…the fruits/results of these are:
Long-suffering (patient suffering over an extended period)
This is a response I got on another forum. I asked him if Catholics are Christians.
Read the heading about what the issue is again. It is right above where you are typing!(Pope: Other Christians Not True Churches)
The Author of the Bible gave it to his worshipers so that they would know the true and right way to worship him. Adam and Eve sided with Satan when they rejected Gods righful rulership and ever since, you are either serving Satan or you are serving the true God.
Even if you try (with or without being religious) to be a good person, but you do not obey God’s requirements found in his word, you are, like Adam and Eve, deciding for yourself what is right and wrong,good and bad, thereby siding with Satan. Cain decided to offer a sacrifice to God and it was rejected. He knew what was acceptable because he saw his brother do it, but rather than change to an acceptable form of worship, he killed his brother. The Bible is a pattern for true worship, so when you compare the teachings of any particular religion with the true pattern, it must fit or else it is not true! The obvious and glaring discrepancies between Catholic teachings and the Bible are too numerous to count. If Catholic teachings are not Biblical, then they are from other sources. The centuries of bloody wars, genocides and dirty dealing in politics is proof enough that they are not true christians. Personally, I think that this is right on the issue although it would also apply to several other so called christian churches as well:eek:
After getting this, I’ll stay here when it comes to forums. God bless.
Sorry to interrupt you,;there is no one author of the OTBible or NTBible, generally there are different scribes not necessarily eye-witnesses who write accounts of events from heresay, so it is not correct to say that there is one author of the Bible.
No ,there are several authors/scribes and then from about forty such gospels only four have been arbitrarily chosen by the clergy for reading of the followers.
This is my opinion, others are welcome to differ with me ,but with reasons,rationality and logical arguments.
Firstly, JesusYeshuaIssa did not leave anything revealed on him from GodAllahYHWH in the form of written stone tablets as was in case of Moses, Secondly or anything written by JesusYeshuaIssa himself when he left from Galilee, after the incident of Crucifixion, alongwith his mother Mary in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel.
Jesus left nothing behind authenticated by him, in possession of the Church.
We do respect the NTGospels which Thirdly) have account of Jesus life, but it does not have any strong value for us more than a book of history subject to scrutiny, internal as well as external, for each event for truth on merit.
[quote=parrasurrey]JesusYeshuaIssa himself when he left from Galilee, after the incident of Crucifixion, alongwith his mother Mary in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel.
What does this have to do with the fact that some protestants don’t regard Catholics as christians?
Stop trying to push your islamic views. We are not muslims and never will be.
And regarding the Holy Scriptures not being written by Jesus. This doesn’t matter. We have the teachings of the apostles and Sacred Tradition to guide us aswell. The Gospels are the word of God. Just because they were not written by him does not change that.
And what about the Satanic Verses? The Quran isn’t the perfect book that you think it was. If Muhammad was fooled by the Satanic Verses, there is a probability that he fooled all of the time.
Also, the Quran does not have accurate information on what Christians actually believe. It says Christians worship Mary as a member of the Holy Trinity. Here is the verse in the quran:
And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?” He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
The Quran 5:116
Christianity has NEVER taught that we are to worship Mary as a God. This is totally made up. Never, in any of the Gospels does Jesus or anyone else say “worship Mary as a god”
My approach is that we should all be research oriented, whatever our faith/denomination/religion/aganostic, we should leave the blind faith and blind trust. This is inhuman.
May GodAllahYHWH bless you.
The ultimate truth about Jesus is:
(Firstly), JesusYeshuaIssa did not leave anything revealed on him from GodAllahYHWH in the form of written stone tablets as was in case of Moses, (Secondly) or anything written by JesusYeshuaIssa himself when he left from Galilee, after the incident of Crucifixion, alongwith his mother Mary in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel, he died natural and peaceful death in Kashmir, India.
Jesus left nothing behind authenticated by him, in possession of the Church.
We do respect the NTGospels which (Thirdly) have account of Jesus life, but it does not have much utility, more value than a book of history subject to scrutiny, internal as well as external, for each event for truth on merit.
Most Protestant Christians are ignorant of history. Many of them lie about history. Like those Baptists who claim their line date back to the Apostles and use the fictional story of the Trail of Blood, which itself is not back up by history and archeological evidence.
You want historical Christianity become Catholic. We have the fullness of truth. The others don’t have it. They only have 50 to 70 percent.
Catholics are Christians, the first kind of Christians in fact.
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