Catholics removed a commandment?

I was chatting with a friend of mine online who is a born again Christian, and he asked me if I knew that Catholics removed one of the ten commandments. I said, “But then wouldn’t there be only 9? I was taught there were 10.” He then said what he meant was that they changed it so that they didn’t have to address idolatry.

So I quickly called up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and sent him the link to it. It has a side-by-side comparison of the commandments in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. A third column shows Traditional Catechetical Formula. I said, “I don’t see anything removed.” Needless to say, he had no response to that, but it did leave me with a question…

Where did the idea come from that the Catholic Church altered the 10 commandments? I’ve heard a lot of strange accusations in my life, but this one is new to me. Anyone have any information about this or heard of it before?

No. No one has removed a commandment. But if you read the Bible, you see that they are not actually laid out in a numbered list. So the question is, how to divide them up? There have been some small differences in how this can be done; I believe Jews, Catholics, and Protestants all divide them slightly differently. But it doesn’t make a huge difference, and there are good arguments for doing it each way.

Here is the wikipedia entry, part way down it has a chart to show how they are divided differently by different groups.

I appreciate you answering the subject line question, but I already know no one added or removed from the commandments.

I am wondering where the idea came from that the Catholic Church removed a commandment (or altered it to avoid addressing idolatry). Where did this idea come from, and how would anyone conclude it? Usually accusations are based on some misinterpretation or misconception of something. Is it a new accusation or is there some history behind it? I was wondering if anyone else had heard of this and knew more about it, since my friend is just obviously repeating something he was taught.

I’m not sure if the wiki’s side-by-side comparison would have anyone conclude someone removed something from the commandments. Is this a result of people thinking that because they are not divided up the same, that someone removed something?

It probably came from the same place as the thought that we worship Mary. Wow, how frustrating.

this is a very modern thing and only found amoung the very far out fring of extreme fundlmentlist. And those that have an militant anti Catholic stance. Pray for them.

I think your friend hinted at it - they believe that Cathlics practice idolatry. They forget, or disagree with at least, that the issue of iconoclasm was dealt with at one of the early councils. In response, it is interesting to note that Luther and Lutherans number the Ten Commandments in the same way the CC does.

Jon

They thought that the first Commandment should be split into:

(1) Worship the Lord your God
(2) Do not ‘make graven image’

Since we do not mention the graven image part - they thought we omit it. Of course it’s a non-issue, as what is prohibited is the worship of the graven image; not making statue or image per se. This group probably would not listen anyway. :shrug:

Where did the idea come from that the Catholic Church altered the 10 commandments? I’ve heard a lot of strange accusations in my life, but this one is new to me. Anyone have any information about this or heard of it before?

Originally, the Reformation.

It’s easy to bloviate when there’s zero chance of being sued. And, the more one spews inaccuracies, the wider the gap that separates Catholicism and protestant denominations.

Did you read my post?

EDIT: The Orthodox number the Ten Commandments in a way different than we (Catholics and Lutherans) do, and they predate the Reformation.

Jon

Sorry, I’ve been busy reading this blog:

christianblogs.christianet.com/1283973103.htm

According to that protestant blog, our prayers to the communion of saints is a form of necromancy.

And they are wrong. This is way off topic, but while I don’t practice invocation, it isn’t necromancy by any stretch.
We know by scripture that the Saints pray for us, the Church Triumphant, without end.
What scripture is silent on is whether they can hear our requests for intercessions. What scripture is clear on is that God can hear their intercessions, and there is nothing wrong in asking Him to respond to their prayers.

JOn

Just some quick notes.

The First commandment to Worship God alone says many things. Much more then don’t worship Graven images. Read it, its a huge paragraph of things. So why not just say what one sentence can say?

With the Reordering Catholics separate Wife and Goods. 9: Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife 10: Thou shall not covet thy neighbors goods. **Would you agree that a Woman is not in the same category as Material possessions? **

As far as necromancy. I know what necromancy is. I used to be a witch. And Catholics are not Necromatic at all. Catholic’s are in communion with all the followers of God. They are connected. When a Christian worthy of Heaven dies he does not die. Christians believe in life after death, therefore the people that Catholics talk to are not dead, they are even more alive then they were on earth. Plus they are right next to God in Heaven so their prayers are of more merit. Read the book of Job in the Old Testament. God said to the other men that Job had to pray for them because he was a righteous man. God would not listen so much to the unrighteous men’s prayers. Are we so righteous that we think our own prayers have so much merit? If we are humble like our Lord we will realize some things. We are sinners and should ask righteous men and women to pray for us to God so that we may atone for our sin.

just some quick small points.

I am glad I read this thread for I learned something new today!

Better watch it though. I have been wondering how long the fundamentalist crowd was going to keep Lutherans in the “Christian column”:D. Sacramental Protestants are closer to Catholics than Evangelicals.

I did! I did! And learned something new today. Thanks Jon.

God Bless,
Maria

THis was the only reason I could think of to explain what he meant. But it may be that the other posters are correct and what he meant was that Catholics (he thinks) don’t observe that commandment.

My guess is that maybe he doesn’t really know - he has been given a mushy explanation that includes both of these things, or something else. I would just point out that Catholics do consider idolatry to be very bad, but that an image is only an idol if it is worshiped, and Catholics are very careful to teach that worship of images is not acceptable.

I did a google search for Catholics changed the ten Commandments and apparently this is a widespread (at least within the internet) belief. I went to one that wants its believers to know that they are doing it out of love & that us poor catholics are to ignorant to know these things. It shows a side by side comparison and says we deleted #2. Then goes on with the usual bunk about idolatry, changing the sabbath, rapture etc.It is very long & I didnt read it all.There are alot of quotes & links to “vatican sources”
the-ten-commandments.org/romancatholic-tencommandments.html

I had heard of this stuff before, I think it was in Karl Keating’s book on Catholicism & Fundamentalism. He said that the fundi movement came out of the post enlightenment era, so I will guess this idea probably originated in post civil war America, not sure we could really pin it down to a person without a lot of research. Easily refuted, but with just enough “truth” to make someone believe it if they are inclined to anti Catholic thought.

this site was interesting in that it says Protestants changed the commandments lol. It is kind of answering SDA objections

theotokos.co.za/adventism/bobs10c.html

Great article on this topic in This Rock:

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea3.asp

Since becoming Catholic, I’ve been continually amazed at the numbers of ways I’ve found that Catholicism and Lutheranism (as opposed to other Protestant denominations) are extremely similar. This is just another one of them! :thumbsup:

Hi Maria-

As a Lutheran of the ELCA, I think of myself as an evangelical, in the sense that I emphasize the good news of salvation received apart from human works as opposed to being what most people think of as an Evangelical when they really mean fundamentalist. I think at the heart we are all evangelical in the sense that we all try to live with in the norms of the Gospel.

Mike

The Jews also have a different numbering.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:What Jon said.
:):)Twice.

=MariaG;7145544]I am glad I read this thread for I learned something new today!

Better watch it though. I have been wondering how long the fundamentalist crowd was going to keep Lutherans in the “Christian column”:D. Sacramental Protestants are closer to Catholics than Evangelicals.

Hi MariaG,
You don’t have to wait. Some don’t. :stuck_out_tongue:
check out jesus-is-savior.com and type Lutheran in the site search. :rolleyes:

I did! I did! And learned something new today. Thanks Jon.

You are quite welcome.

God Bless,
Maria

And His blessings also with you,
Jon

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