Catholics set to pass Anglicans as leading UK church


#1

Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent, Times (UK)

Roman Catholicism is set to become the dominant religion in Britain for the first time since the Reformation because of massive migration from Catholic countries across the world.

Catholic parishes will swell by hundreds of thousands over the next few years after managing years of decline, according to a new report, as both legal and illegal migrants enter the country.

It says that the influx of migrants could be the Catholic community’s “greatest threat” or its “greatest opportunity”.

Full article…


#2

It’s an interesting statistic … I wonder what Henry VIII must be thinking! But an article on Amy Welborn points out that increases due to conversion are a much better measure of a vibrant Catholic community than increases caused solely by immigration.


#3

Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

Radical proposals to reunite Anglicans with the Roman Catholic Church under the leadership of the Pope are to be published this year, The Times has learnt.

The proposals have been agreed by senior bishops of both churches.

In a 42-page statement prepared by an international commission of both churches, Anglicans and Roman Catholics are urged to explore how they might reunite under the Pope.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1403702.ece


#4

Were this week’s discussions to lead to a split between liberals and conservatives, many of the former objections in Rome to a reunion with Anglican conservatives would disappear. Many of those Anglicans who object most strongly to gay ordination also oppose the ordination of women priests.

I had pretty much given up hope of the Anglican Church reuniting with the Catholic Church anytime soon. I would be sorry to see the Anglican Communion fracture, but perhaps it would remove some of the obstacles to reunion.


#5

It will be interesting to see there this leads. However, I see only a small fraction of Anglicans being reunited with Rome.


#6

Hi Guys

I just wanted to say thanks for the interesting article in the times. I am new here and presently enrolled in an RCIA program towards being a full fledged Catholic. I was a life long Anglican so the article interested me.

God Bless

BHTech


#7

No problem… and welcome :thumbsup:


#8

A commenter to the article:

You are kidding me!!!

Making Mary co redeemer and now this: The Times…

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

the Bible is the authority NOT the church - and Mary is not queen of heaven (see jeremiah 7:11)

Come Lord Jesus!

Obviously a very misinformed Fundamentalist’s view of the whole thing.

I wish he/she would tell us which Vatican “teaching document” instructs the faithful some parts of the Bible are not actually true. :rolleyes:


#9

Interesting. In the US though, if not elsewhere, most of the Anglo-Catholics have already left the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion. Many of the dissatisfied remaining Episcopalians are conservative evangelicals who probably have no problem with womens’ ordination and would probably balk at coming under the jurisdiction of Rome. Just my opinion…


#10

sorry to go OT but from that article reply someone posted, it mentioned Mary as co redeemer. The church does not believe this do they…?


#11

Co redeemer does not mean what you think it does. It means "co-operated with the work of redemption


#12

The Church in the UK is very unlikely to pass the CofE by baptised members- huge numerical disparity. But by regular mass attendees we may well pass them by. Probably because of immigration and people fleeing the misguided CofE, which they see as spending all its time on its own divisions.


#13

Clarification re Times article on Anglican-Roman Catholic relations

Growing Together in Unity and Mission is being published as an agreed statement of IARCCUM (the International Anglican - Roman Catholic Commission for Unity and Mission), and is to be published under the Commission’s authority, not as an official statement of the Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion. It is being put forward to foster discussion and reflection, as the statement clearly states.

Growing Together in Unity and Mission has not yet been officially published. It is unfortunate that its contents have been prematurely reported in a way which misrepresents its intentions and sensationalises its conclusions. The first part of the document, which treats doctrinal matters, is an attempt to synthesize the work of ARCIC (the Anglican - Roman Catholic International Commission) over the past 35 years. It identifies the level of agreement which has been reached by ARCIC, but is also very clear in identifying ongoing areas of disagreement, and in raising questions which still need to be addressed in dialogue. Those ongoing questions and areas of disagreement are highlighted in boxed sections interspersed throughout the text. It is a very honest document assessing the state of Anglican - Roman Catholic relations at the present moment.

more


#14

This doesn’t surprise me at all. The Anglican church appears to be self-destructing by being more and more accommodating to the culture of death.


#15

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1403702.ece


#16

All I can say is: “May it be according to God’s will” as I will keep praying for all Christians to be united under our Holy Father.


#17

I’m a bit confused by the article… Is it saying that The Anglican Church in general is seeking reunion, or just the more conservative wings?

Either way, I’ll be praying for their return. :slight_smile:


#18

I think this pertains only to some of the High Church and Anglo-Catholic Anglicans. The rest have a long way to go to be part of the Catholic faith.again.

The Anglican Communion is splintering. There are so many factions now it cannot be considered united in any way- neither structurally or theologicaly. Even in England, the center of Anglicanism, there are divisions.

If (or hopefully when) these Anglicans can be brought back into the Catholic Church, the rest of the Anglican Communion will fall.

It will be interesting to see how this will impact the Catholic Church- surely positively though. I am curious as to how the issue of valid Holy Orders will be approached.


#19

Here’s a SERIOUS clarification that was jointly issued today:

Date: 2007-02-19

Anglicans and Catholics Take Times to Task

Prelates Clarify Upcoming Document

LONDON, FEB. 19, 2007 (Zenit.org).- The co-chairs of an Anglican-Catholic dialogue commission said that an article in the Times newspaper, headlined “Churches Back Plan to Unite Under Pope,” sensationalizes and misrepresents the truth.

The article by Ruth Gledhill reports information supposedly leaked to the Times regarding an unpublished document entitled “Growing Together in Unity and Mission,” to be released by the International Anglican-Roman Catholic Commission for Unity and Mission.

Gledhill’s article, published today, claimed: “Radical proposals to reunite Anglicans with the Roman Catholic Church under the leadership of the Pope are to be published this year, The Times has learnt.”

The prelates that co-chair the commission have clarified the reporting in Gledhill’s article. They released this statement (adapted here):

“Growing Together in Unity and Mission” is being published as an agreed statement of IARCCUM (the International Anglican-Roman Catholic Commission for Unity and Mission), and is to be published under the commission’s authority, not as an official statement of the Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion. It is being put forward to foster discussion and reflection, as the statement clearly states.

The statement was recently completed by IARCCUM, and is scheduled to be published by the commission as soon as a Catholic commentary to accompany the document has been completed; an Anglican commentary has already been prepared for publication.

The text was made available to the Joint Standing Committee of the Primates and the Anglican Consultative Council and to the Anglican primates, currently meeting in Tanzania. The primates were also presented with a copy of the agreed statement of the International Commission of the Anglican-Orthodox Theological Dialogue, entitled “The Church of the Triune God.”

Through these two texts, Anglican leaders were able to look at the recent results of important international dialogues with which the Anglican Communion is currently engaged. Both of these texts address the theology of the Church, and given that the Anglican primates are currently discussing the nature of the Church, it was felt that the dialogue documents had something to contribute to those discussions.

“Growing Together in Unity and Mission” has not yet been officially published. It is unfortunate that its contents have been prematurely reported in a way which misrepresents its intentions and sensationalizes its conclusions.

The first part of the document, which treats doctrinal matters, is an attempt to synthesize the work of ARCIC (the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission) over the past 35 years. It identifies the level of agreement which has been reached by ARCIC, but is also very clear in identifying ongoing areas of disagreement, and in raising questions which still need to be addressed in dialogue.

Those ongoing questions and areas of disagreement are highlighted in boxed sections interspersed throughout the text. It is a very honest document assessing the state of Anglican-Roman Catholic relations at the present moment.

Both the heading of the article (“Churches back plan to unite under Pope”) and its opening sentence, which speaks of “radical proposals to reunite Anglicans with the Roman Catholic Church under the leadership of the Pope,” need to be put into proper perspective.

For 35 years this dialogue has addressed questions of authority, including the papacy. The so-called “radical proposals” found in “Growing Together in Unity and Mission” are the same proposals which ARCIC has been putting forward over the past 35 years.

What this document says about the Petrine Ministry is not new, but a synthesis of what is said in ARCIC’s documents on authority (“Authority in the Church I,” 1976; “Authority in the Church II,” 1981; “The Gift of Authority,” 1999).

While it is encouraging that a document of this kind can be produced and that practical day-to-day cooperation between Catholics and Anglicans can be strengthened, talk of plans to reunite the two communions is, sadly, much exaggerated.

The second part of the document sets forward proposals for concrete initiatives, identifying aspects of common mission, common study, common prayer which are for the most part already permitted according to authoritative sources of the Catholic Church and the provinces of the Anglican Communion.


#20

Most of these proposals aren’t new, and some of them have been implemented for decades in some places. The document draws together a series of proposals which IARCCUM’s members believe are possible in the present context given the degree of faith we share. But it also says that local bishops in each part of the world will need to discern what is appropriate locally, given that the context and dynamics of relationships between Anglicans and Roman Catholics differ widely across the world.

The Times article speculates about the Catholic Church’s response to a possible schism within the Anglican Communion. It should be pointed out that the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity has consistently spoken of the value of the Anglican Communion remaining a communion, rooted in the Apostolic faith, as indicated in this statement from 2004: “It is our overwhelming desire that the Anglican Communion stays together, rooted in the historic faith which our dialogue and relations over four decades have led us to believe that we share to a large degree.”

During the visit of the Archbishop of Canterbury to Pope Benedict in November, 2006, the Holy Father noted: “It is our fervent hope that the Anglican Communion will remain grounded in the Gospels and the Apostolic Tradition which form our common patrimony and are the basis of our common aspiration to work for full visible unity.”

We hope that when published, “Growing Together in Unity and Mission” invites a good deal of discussion, and that it will be a helpful instrument on the long journey towards full communion which has been the stated goal of Anglican-Roman Catholic relations for the past 40 years.

From Archbishop John Bathersby, Catholic Co-chair of IARCCUM
and Bishop David Beetge, Anglican Co-chair of IARCCUM


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