Catholics viewpoint on the book of Revelation


#1

Howdy folks,

Greetings my fellow saints. It is great to know that we have faith in Jesus Christ and as a result we are saved.

I have a question. Why don't Catholics believe the book of Revelation is nothing but alegory? I went to a Catholic church with a buddy of mine and there wasn't much scripture presented which was pretty sad. Instead there were some nice stories that went a little long. So during these stories I picked up a Bible from the pew and read the introduction to Revelation and whoever wrote the summary said not to take the book literaly!

To discount scripture is a slap in the face of the alighty. That type of comment is something an athiest would say. Yes I know there are allegories in scripture, but to identify an entire book as not literal was very disappointing.

Have a blessed day in the Lord.


#2

[quote="DFWChristian, post:1, topic:269372"]
I have a question. Why don't Catholics believe the book of Revelation is nothing but alegory?

[/quote]

This should give you a good start:
[LIST]
*]catholic.com/radio/shows/unlocking-the-book-of-revelation-4501
*]scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#eucharist-IIf
*]fatherjoe.wordpress.com/instructions/debates/anti-catholicism/against-the-anti-catholic-interpretation-of-revelation/
*]smp.org/resourcepage.cfm?article=126
[/LIST]

To discount scripture is a slap in the face of the alighty. That type of comment is something an athiest would say. Yes I know there are allegories in scripture, but to identify an entire book as not literal was very disappointing.

It's not discounting Scripture at all. All of the books in the Bible are written in different ways, with different focuses, cultural influences, etc., and thus, it's no surprise that Revelation reflects the nuances, albeit in a more extensive way.

This book is part of a literary genre known as "apocalyptic." By examining and comparing other examples of the genre, such as the Sibylline Oracles and the Book of Enoch, common themes and symbols can be seen. What at first seems cloudy and confusing, like the use of numbers and colors in the Book of Revelation, becomes much clearer and understandable by comparison. (source)

And why was it disappointing? Because you expected a particular interpretation, and found it to say something else?

Cheers.


#3

[quote="DFWChristian, post:1, topic:269372"]
Howdy folks,

Greetings my fellow saints. It is great to know that we have faith in Jesus Christ and as a result we are saved.

I have a question. Why don't Catholics believe the book of Revelation is nothing but alegory? I went to a Catholic church with a buddy of mine and there wasn't much scripture presented which was pretty sad. Instead there were some nice stories that went a little long. So during these stories I picked up a Bible from the pew and read the introduction to Revelation and whoever wrote the summary said not to take the book literaly!

To discount scripture is a slap in the face of the alighty. That type of comment is something an athiest would say. Yes I know there are allegories in scripture, but to identify an entire book as not literal was very disappointing.

Have a blessed day in the Lord.

[/quote]

I smell a troll just by your opening line.

You went to a Catholic Mass and said there wasn't much scripture presented when in fact almost everything in the Mass straight from scripture. "The nice stories that went a little long," were readings from the old testament, the new testament, the gospels and the psalms. For a "bible christian" you should have been able to recognize that. You should try going again and paying attention this time my friend.

God Bless.

However on the off chance that you are really serious about your question read Michael Barbers book called Unlocking the Book of Revelation. It will explain all your questions.


#4

If you sat through a Catholic mass and didn’t hear any scripture, then you aren’t aware of what scripture says. From the moment it begins to the moment it ends it is a complete immersion in scripture. Every reading is directly from the Bible, the cantor even sings a Psalm! The gospel is proclaimed, and the entire time you hear echoes from the Revelation of John. The Holy Holy Holy that the angels proclaim is joined by our own voices! The Eucharistic invocation are the words of Jesus himself! How much more scripture can you get?

I would challenge that to say that you went to mass and heard no scripture is itself a slap in the face of the almighty.

Catholics also don’t think that it’s all allegory. Many of us admit very readily that it was prophetic in nature. We just see that many of those prophecies were already fulfilled. Get yourself a copy of the Lamb’s Supper to start with if you actually have questions and aren’t just trolling.


#5

Howdy folks,

Let me clarify something. I don't believe I said there was no scripture reading. There was one verse read and a nice story to elaborate but that was it. The scripture and story was about 5 minutes.

My point of contention is not the interpretation of Revelation because great scholars all differ on some verses. My problem was when someone providing a summary of the book tries to pursuade the reader that it is an allegory. Im not saying there are not allegories in the Bible, but when one tries to paint entire books as allegory then yes I have a problem.


#6

If there was only one verse read you weren't at a Catholic mass. That is our point. There is one gospel reading, but there are several readings, even at a daily mass. If you were at a daily mass go to a Sunday mass and listen carefully. Also listen to the music. Pay attention to the very words that are being voiced in song. They are also from scripture.


#7

Well, I'll tell my Catholic buddy that and he would disagree:). They all went to get the sacrament or something like that. The priests were dressed in costumes. They all read a memorized prayer.

[quote="bmullins, post:6, topic:269372"]
If there was only one verse read you weren't at a Catholic mass. That is our point. There is one gospel reading, but there are several readings, even at a daily mass. If you were at a daily mass go to a Sunday mass and listen carefully. Also listen to the music. Pay attention to the very words that are being voiced in song. They are also from scripture.

[/quote]


#8

And which sacrament did they go to? What were the words used during the sacrament? What were the costumes and what did they represent? What were the words of the prayer and where did they come from?


#9

He is asking about the book of Revelation which was Apostles Pauls revelation. He is right, the Church seldom discusses it, why it is not important is beyound me. Now I do see Scott Hahn had said it has to do with the Mass and host, don’t know how he came up with that. I don’t even think I know the Churchs posistion on end times, I don’t think the CC believes in the rapture, do they, I know they believe in the Final Judgement.


#10

Here, print this out and take it with you to a mass. In fact, mark every scripture listed here and read it as those parts are being done. The first time I went into mass I didn't really pay attention. I thought, wow these guys do things so strangley. Then one day I listened carefully to the words and found myself being soaked in scripture.

Scripture in the Mass


#11

[quote="DFWChristian, post:7, topic:269372"]
Well, I'll tell my Catholic buddy that and he would disagree:). They all went to get the sacrament or something like that. The priests were dressed in costumes. They all read a memorized prayer.

[/quote]

This is so condescending and dumbed down I'm not sure if it's worth replying to, but here goes. "The Sacrament" is the Holy Eucharist, it is the sacrifice of the mass, it is what is central to the mass. The mass is not a bible study, which is what is going on in most Protestant services, 15 minutes of singing, (make that close to an hour if it's a charismatic service!), followed by close to an hour of expository preaching. Most of which is forgotten on the way to the parking lot! The short homily given is retainable, far more effective. The costume comment I'll ignore. :rolleyes:

BTW, the sacrament, "or something like that", is wholly, and here is comes sports fans, SCRIPTURAL! :D


#12

If you want a good handle on the book of Revelation from a Protestant perspective, I would suggest getting the book "The Apocalypse Code" by Hank Henegraaff. While Hank will not see the mass in there as Scott Hahn does, both men will agree that to get a handle on this book you must have a good understanding of the Old Testament. I'd also look at Hank's series "The Last Disciple", which was written to counter the nonsense of the "Left Behind" series.


#13

[quote="Luvtosew, post:9, topic:269372"]
He is asking about the book of Revelation which was Apostles Pauls revelation. He is right, the Church seldom discusses it, why it is not important is beyound me. Now I do see Scott Hahn had said it has to do with the Mass and host, don't know how he came up with that. I don't even think I know the Churchs posistion on end times, I don't think the CC believes in the rapture, do they, I know they believe in the Final Judgement.

[/quote]

Revelation has to do with Mass. It doesn't mention the Rapture or the Second Coming once in its context. That's a huge misconception RE: the book.


#14

[quote="DFWChristian, post:1, topic:269372"]
Howdy folks,

Greetings my fellow saints. It is great to know that we have faith in Jesus Christ and as a result we are saved.

I have a question. Why don't Catholics believe the book of Revelation is nothing but alegory? I went to a Catholic church with a buddy of mine and there wasn't much scripture presented which was pretty sad. Instead there were some nice stories that went a little long. So during these stories I picked up a Bible from the pew and read the introduction to Revelation and whoever wrote the summary said not to take the book literaly!

To discount scripture is a slap in the face of the alighty. That type of comment is something an athiest would say. Yes I know there are allegories in scripture, but to identify an entire book as not literal was very disappointing.

Have a blessed day in the Lord.

[/quote]

I don't think that was a Catholic church. For one, there are no bibles in the pews of Catholic churches and no Catholic-approved version of scripture would have such a suggestion in the intro to Revelation. For second, there is tons of scripture read at every service. There are no less than 3 separate scripture readings, usually at least 10 verses long each at each and every mass. Those "nice stories" were the scripture readings, and book, chapter, and verses are given each time.

If what you describe was accurate as to what happened, I can say with 100% certainty that you were not at a Catholic church.


#15

[quote="DFWChristian, post:5, topic:269372"]
Howdy folks,

Let me clarify something. I don't believe I said there was no scripture reading. There was one verse read and a nice story to elaborate but that was it. The scripture and story was about 5 minutes.

My point of contention is not the interpretation of Revelation because great scholars all differ on some verses. My problem was when someone providing a summary of the book tries to pursuade the reader that it is an allegory. Im not saying there are not allegories in the Bible, but when one tries to paint entire books as allegory then yes I have a problem.

[/quote]

The whole point of Revelation is to tell us that Christ is victorious. He is victorious over death on the cross, and at the end of time He is still victorious over Satan. It is meant to tell us Christians that no matter what happens, we should remain in faith in Christ because his victory is assured.


#16

[quote="DFWChristian, post:1, topic:269372"]
I have a question. Why don't Catholics believe the book of Revelation is nothing but alegory? I went to a Catholic church with a buddy of mine and there wasn't much scripture presented which was pretty sad. Instead there were some nice stories that went a little long. So during these stories I picked up a Bible from the pew and read the introduction to Revelation and whoever wrote the summary said not to take the book literaly!

[/quote]

Hi,
Why would you take it literally? I always thought visions like that had to be interpreted. Take Daniel for example: his visions, which were similar to some of the visions in the book of revelation, had to be interpreted by an angel.

Regards,
Neil

Edit: My guess would be that you read the commentary on revelation in the New American Bible. It's a rather liberal commentary. Catholics have all sorts of different ideas about what the book of revelation means. The most common interpretation is that it deals partly with things that happened in the first centuries and partly with end-times topics.

Edit #2: You give the impression that you expected more bible reading and commentary, and got a bunch of other stuff at mass. I guess the Catholic viewpoint is that the mass is definitely biblical, in fact the mass is something that the "corinthians" and "romans" and "thessalonians" did when they got together on Sundays back in the first century. So, reading the bible is part of it, but it's also about living the Christian life that was the background of the new testament. Like re-enacting the last supper for example (communion). The thessalonians, etc., had some practice they did on Sundays before they got their letter from Paul in the mail which later became part of the bible. And we believe what they were doing is essentially what we do on Sundays :D

Hope that helps!


#17

Commentaries are not infallible. (No more so than the errant ones in your own abridged version of the Bible) They do not speak for the church. If you want an authentic document on what we Catholics believe about the Bible and Revelation, perhaps you should read a very good and authentic document that is included in the front of many Catholic Bibles called Dei Verbum


#18

It doesn't mention the Rapture or the Second Coming once in its context. That's a huge misconception RE: the book.

the rapture is in one of the gospels, and isn't it Hahn that said it was about the mass, now I have never heard that from anyone else, I have heard others talk about the meaning of Revelation and I see nothing about it pertaining to Mass,, have yet to find out why he feels that way. I believe in the rapture.


#19

[quote="DFWChristian, post:1, topic:269372"]
To discount scripture is a slap in the face of the alighty. That type of comment is something an athiest would say. Yes I know there are allegories in scripture, but to identify an entire book as not literal was very disappointing.

[/quote]

Are you a dispensational premillennialist who thinks everything in the
Bible is to taken literally? In your interpretation of the Bible
is literal human blood going to extend ~6 feet high for 200 miles in the
verse below?
And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood
came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space
of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Rev 14:20
Do you also believe that Rev 20, the most figurative chapter
in the NT, maybe the whole bible, talks about a literal 1000 years?


#20

[quote="DFWChristian, post:7, topic:269372"]
Well, I'll tell my Catholic buddy that and he would disagree:). They all went to get the sacrament or something like that. The priests were dressed in costumes. They all read a memorized prayer.

[/quote]

It's official we have a troll.


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