Catholics, what if you don't want children during marriage?


#64

Like, as in, never truly desired it or felt the calling to have kids.


#65

Do you mind if I ask how old you are?


#66

@Littany_Tiffany

Do you think sexual activity between two persons of the same sex can be morally good or even just morally neutral?

Yes or no, and why?


#67

Relevance?

Asking that question is just going to derail this thread, no matter what point you are trying to make.


#68

The head of the Church is Jesus who is God your standing in His Church does matter.

whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


#69

I think nature is really really cruel regardless…I’m sorry for your losses by the way. Respects.

Why I’m here? Good question. Because why not? I attended a Catholic school. Had Catholic friends. I want to learn about the different kinds of denominations and debate our differences and how those other denominations regard God. There are hardly any other Orthodox around here anyways, but hey, Catholics are the next closest denomination despite our differences. And Catholics are more respectful with their opponents lots of others on any other forums, to be honest. But, I couldn’t understand for my life why Catholics regard birth control as they do. Thus, my question on here. I hope there’s nothing wrong with that.


#70

But…in the Church, I was asked if I was open to life - which to me means children - or at least the possibility of them should they come…

From the USCCB Website on " Married Love and the Gift of Life":

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/love-and-sexuality/married-love-and-the-gift-of-life.cfm


#71

@Littany_Tiffany

Let me apologize for the stark bluntness and even uncharitable attitudes given by some participants here.

You wouldn’t have asked your question unless you were truly concerned.

In addition, you are not even (yet?) Catholic, so it’s not as if you are operating with all the same assumptions and principles as a Catholic would. Maybe other replies would do well to keep this in mind.

Desiring intimacy and companionship are totally natural. I can’t think of any person who does NOT want that. Even people who feel called to celibacy (and not just cornered into it, say, when a spouse abandons, etc.) want intimacy too. Humans are designed for love and relationships.

What’s more, it’s very hard to live in a modern society that tells us romance is the primary form of love, and one that everyone is expected to have. Even the churches tend to act as if everyone is going to be married or else enter the religious life.

With all the being said, I think the most important thing to strive for is discipline. If you want a romantic relationship, then this means you will have to at least be open to the possibility for children, if that should one day be the case. Even in Catholic teaching, there ARE good reasons to postpone children (through licit means like taking advantage of the woman’s natural cycle).

Ask yourself: Can you live the disciplined life where you have a romantic relationship, get married, and stay chaste so as to avoid pregnancy? Do you ever see yourself EVER being open to children one day?


#72

If you don’t have a particular man in mind, don’t worry about it so much now. If you have a vocation to marry, married love gives us a new heart. There just may be room in that heart for children after all, and for wanting to see your spouse become a father. There is no guarantee you even can.


#73

Stay tuned. :blush:


#74

If they don’t want children then they aren’t married. Every married couple wants children by definition.


#75

No to good or neutral: it is a choice for the negative. There is no neutrality with it. It takes a stand either way. Jesus never indicated by His words on marriage that that was part of God’s plan, & in fact, He reiterates the Genesis story as God’s plan:

From Matthew 19 (NABRE - USCCB):

3 a Some Pharisees approached him, and tested him,* saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause whatever?”
4 * b He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’
5 c and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
7 * d They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss [her]?”
8 He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 e I say to you,* whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.”
10 [His] disciples said to him, “If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
11 He answered, “Not all can accept [this] word,* but only those to whom that is granted.
12 Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage* for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.”

From Mark 10 (NABRE - USCCB):

2 * The Pharisees approached and asked, “Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?” They were testing him.a
3 He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?”
4 They replied, “Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.”b
5 But Jesus told them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment.
6 But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.c
7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother [and be joined to his wife],d
8 and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”

1 Corinthians 7 NABRE - USCCB:

http://www.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/7


#76

No to good or neutral: it is a choice for the negative. There is no neutrality with it. It takes a stand either way. Jesus never indicated by His words on marriage that that was part of God’s plan, & in fact, He reiterates the Genesis story as God’s plan:

Wasn’t asking you.

But thanks!


#77

If my wife hadn’t wanted kids I never would have had any. I did not look forward to raising them, though I always did what was expected, and was never comfortable in the role of parent. Now, as a grandparent, I am equally unwilling to become much involved. I totally understand your feelings.


#78

Sorry. I saw the question posed, but saw no limit to whom it was addressed. Thought it was a general question.


#79

No worries, man, I was actually the one worried that I was coming off as too “blunt” or rude. I’m glad this can be kept civil. :slightly_smiling_face:
Well, I came onto a Catholic forum. AND I have learned some things about Catholicism in the past. Might as keep them in mind to get to know the other side better.
Agreed, I think marriage and romance comes with lots of discipline. Especially the ever-present knowledge that kids ARE inevitable. It’s kind of why I dissed the idea of marriage for a while and decided to be celibate. It’s really not that simple, though. You fall in love, and then you realize that the strongest urge in the world is to be with that person forever. But the reluctance to have children isn’t as easy to change. That’s why I’m still very on the fence about marriage as a whole. Hey, who knows? Maybe celibacy will suit me better in the long-run. Independence and all.
You asked me what I thought about same-sex relationships. Wellll…does it matter what I think of that?:slightly_smiling_face:


#80

I sure don’t want kids.

Bokbok


#81

I knew some married yet childless couples…


#82

You asked me what I thought about same-sex relationships. Wellll…does it matter what I think of that?

Some people respond better to an intellectual exercise. I thought it may help you to consider whether or not you approve of same-sex relationships, because that may expose a more foundational issue. For example, if you accept them, then at least you are being consistent with your understanding of sex. But if you do not accept them, I would want you to consider whether your beliefs were truly consistent.

We have to ask what the purpose of sex is, in the first place. Not only biologically, but what we can gather about God’s purposes more generally. And then, another question, who is able to speak to God’s purposes?

E.g., as an Orthodox, surely you’d favor the consistent Tradition of the Church. There is not solid “Orthodox answer” in the same way there is a Catholic one to this question. But I wouldn’t want you to be tempted towards Orthodoxy (on this issue) simply because it may be easier to excuse yourself and find an Orthodox theologian who accepts contraception.

Who gets to decide and determine whether contracpetion is OK? Etc.

You fall in love, and then you realize that the strongest urge in the world is to be with that person forever. But the reluctance to have children isn’t as easy to change. That’s why I’m still very on the fence about marriage as a whole.

I’m not totally knowledgeable about it, but there have been celibate marriages in the Catholic Church. Consider Joseph and Mary. They form the model, which is why these arrangements have been considered “Josephite Marriages” in the past.

I don’t know the whole scoop on it. But it at least goes to show that having a marriage without kids is not inherently wrong — even knowing you are not going to engage in sexual activity.


#83

Moreover, no Catholic can kid themselves (no pun intended):

Marriages are performed all the time with couples who do NOT foresee kids in their future.

My grandmother just got married a few years ago. No one expected them to have kids.

Of course, the idea is that there must be an openness to God’s will. But no one seriously expects elderly couples to have kids. That is, there ARE marriages in Catholicism whereby the two parties go into fully confident they will not be raising any kids.

This isn’t to cast doubt on the Catholic doctrine. Not at all! Marriage and procreation are inter-linked. The point is, the issue may not be so black and white in the sense that a single thread reply is going to solve your question.


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