Catholics Worship Mary!


#1

Hi guys i am new and like to share with you this:
when some protestant friend tells you: CATHOLICS WORSHIP MARY, here is what i tell them.

WE CATHOLICS DONT WORSHIP MARY BECAUSE THAT WILL BE GOING AGAINST THE 1ST COMMANDMENT (SO WE DONT DO THAT).

THEN ASK THEM: DID JESUS SIN???
ANSWER= NO

AND THEN (HERE IS THE TRAP) YOU REPPLY:
WHAT ABOUT THE 4TH COMMANDMENT (HONOR THY MOTHER AND THY FATHER), DID JESUS HONOR MARY???

IF THEY ANSWER NO, WELL THEN JESUS SIN. AND ALL CHISTIANITY IS DOWN THE TUBES

IF THEY ANSWER YES…WELL POINT FOR THE CATHOLICS BECAUSE WE TRY TO IMITATE JESUS.

(I TOLD YOU THERE WAS NO ESCAPE FROM THIS ONE)

Hope you like this one and use it. PLEASE REPLY TO THIS ONE I WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

ADIOS FROM MEXICO !!!


#2

Hola amigo! That is a very good defense that I will use the next time the issue is brought up. Gracias. Bienvenidos!


#3

they will, of course, point out ‘the difference’ between honoring someone and worshiping them.

they would define that difference differently than we would. to them (some of them, i mean - there’s no way to say what all protestants believe), having a statue of someone in your church is a form of worship - an idolatrous form.

while your argument is a good one, i think you’ll find that it won’t work with most protestants - they’ve decided a priori that the catholic church is wrong, so any argument showing that it’s NOT wrong is wrong by virtue of what it shows. :slight_smile:

now - there are of course protestants who genuinely have concerns about what the church teaches, and will learn from dialog in which the argument you mentioned were used. but it’s not quite an ‘open and shut case’.


#4

[quote=jeffreedy789]having a statue of someone in your church is a form of worship - an idolatrous form.
[/quote]

At that point I usually point out to them that God ordered the Isrealites to make images to adorn the Ark of the Covenant, and God approved of all the statues and religious images that Solomon had placed in the Temple.

[quote=jeffreedy789]while your argument is a good one, i think you’ll find that it won’t work with most protestants - they’ve decided a priori that the catholic church is wrong, so any argument showing that it’s NOT wrong is wrong by virtue of what it shows. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

This is very true. Usually the best thing to do is turn the discussion to their beliefs, not Catholicism. As Keating wrote, they place more time and effort in attacking Catholicism than they do in thinking out their own beliefs. Try: “So, if God commands and approves of religious statues and imagry as aids for prayer and meditation, why don’t you have them in your churches?” Or… “How does the second and third commandments in your version of listing the Ten Commandments differ from one another? Don’t they say exactly the same thing?”

Some Fundamentalist Evangelicals are so used to talking about the Catholic Church and everyone else they deem wrong that they rarely know how to react when the tables are turned. I was surprised at how much my family and friends squirmed when I started to ask them about their own Fundamentalist beliefs.


#5

[quote=Théodred]“How does the second and third commandments in your version of listing the Ten Commandments differ from one another? Don’t they say exactly the same thing?”

.
[/quote]

What are the second and third in the Protestant tradition? How do they differ from ours?

jp2fan


#6

[quote=jp2fan]What are the second and third in the Protestant tradition? How do they differ from ours?

jp2fan
[/quote]

cin.org/users/james/files/numberng.htm
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=15053
these should help explain it to you :smiley:


#7

we honor mary because of great privileges:she was conceived without sin, became the mother of god while remaining a virgin, and was assumed bodily into heaven. there she reigns asqueen of heaven and earth, mother of the church,god’s greatest creature,and mankind’s greatest boast. we honor her because jesus honored her-- perfectly obeying the fourth comandment-- and we are called to imitate jesus. santa maria madre de dios… amen


#8

We adore God. We worship God. We honor Mary as we honor our parents. She is our heavenly mother. She is also our intercessor in our prayers. Being in heaven, she is the perfect prayer partner when we ask Jesus for aide. That’s the big difference.


#9

[quote=miguel delgado]Hi guys i am new and like to share with you this:
when some protestant friend tells you: CATHOLICS WORSHIP MARY, here is what i tell them.

WE CATHOLICS DONT WORSHIP MARY BECAUSE THAT WILL BE GOING AGAINST THE 1ST COMMANDMENT (SO WE DONT DO THAT).=============================================================================================
Hi Miguel,Its not the first commandment you break,its the second.You shall not make yourself any graven images. Dont bow down to anything BUT God. :confused: God Bless
[/quote]


#10

originally posted by SPOKENWORD
Its not the first commandment you break,its the second.You shall not make yourself any graven images.

Now, for someone who’s been around this form as long as you have, you have to know the door you are opening. Is that cross in your church not a "graven image’?

Gimme a break!

I had a mormon once tell me that old hat, “you Catholics worship Mary”. She was very antagonistic about it too. She claimed she was “once a Catholic” so, of course she KNOWS this. All I said before I walked away was, “if, indeed, you ever were a Catholic then you darned well know better and know that what you just said is a lie.”


#11

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Hi Miguel,Its not the first commandment you break,its the second.You shall not make yourself any graven images. Dont bow down to anything BUT God. :confused: God Bless
[/quote]

Hey Spoken, when I kneel down to pray, what circumference must I clear around myself to ensure I am not bowing down to anything?


#12

[quote=John_Henry]Hey Spoken, when I kneel down to pray, what circumference must I clear around myself to ensure I am not bowing down to anything?
[/quote]

When I kneel down at my bedside to pray, does that mean I’m worshiping my bed?:smiley:

If anyone tells me that we Catholics worship Mary, I tell them that since we are to honor our mother and father, shouldn’t we especially honor the mother who gave birth to our savior? If they have a problem, I tell them we should stop celebrating Mother’s Day.


#13

[quote=UtahMaggie]When I kneel down at my bedside to pray, does that mean I’m worshiping my bed?:smiley:

If anyone tells me that we Catholics worship Mary, I tell them that since we are to honor our mother and father, shouldn’t we especially honor the mother who gave birth to our savior? If they have a problem, I tell them we should stop celebrating Mother’s Day.
[/quote]

But you are not praying to your bed when you kneel down to pray. You also are not praying to your Mother on Mother’s Day(At least I hope not). You should compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. However, you go to Mary in prayer. Prayer is worship. Therefore, you are worshiping Mary.


#14

[quote=bjcros]But you are not praying to your bed when you kneel down to pray. You also are not praying to your Mother on Mother’s Day(At least I hope not). You should compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. However, you go to Mary in prayer. Prayer is worship. Therefore, you are worshiping Mary.
[/quote]

I think this answer from CA apologist Michelle Arnold in the Ask an Apologist forum, fits this response just perfectly: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=21922&highlight

First, it may help to understand that not all prayer is worship. The noun prayer comes from the verb to pray and can, in its most general meaning, be defined as “to make a fervent request or entreaty” (source).

Second, consider Jesus’ parable of the rich man and Lazarus (cf. Luke 16:19-31). In his story, Jesus portrays the rich man begging Abraham for Abraham’s and Lazarus’s intercession. Abraham and Lazarus are unable to help the rich man (vv. 25-26), but the story does not teach that the rich man did anything wrong by requesting their help.

When Catholics pray to Mary and the saints, they are requesting the intercession of Mary and the saints before God, something that the Book of Revelation says that the saints do for us in heaven (cf. 5:8). For more information, please see the recommendations listed below.

Recommended reading:

Praying to the Saints
The Intercession of the Saints
Saint Worship?
Any Friend of God’s Is a Friend of Mine by Patrick Madrid
Refuting the Attack on Mary by Fr. Mateo


#15

This is something I’ve had to tell my family. After coming home from Mass my Dad asked me some questions and one thing he added was, “Oh you know Catholics worship Mary.”. This is a real misunderstanding. My Dad (as far as I know) has never stepped foot into a Catholic Church and yet he has held on to this belief. He got this belief from another person, who is not Catholic and has never been.

I told him gently that they don’t worship Mary, they simply pray to her and ask her to pray for them. Just as people pray to their dead family members, at least that is how I think of it. Go to Mass and you will see 99% of Mass is solely devoted to Jesus Christ. People have a real misunderstanding and most people mean well, they just go by hearsay or what their family tells them.


#16

[quote=Catholic29]I think this answer from CA apologist Michelle Arnold in the Ask an Apologist forum, fits this response just perfectly: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=21922&highlight
[/quote]

That isn’t a good example to use. Firstly, Jesus doesn’t condone asking those who have passed for help. Secondly, the rich man is already dead and even that he is in hell. Alright I understand asking people for help with your walk and to be accountable. However, that person is living here and I’m talking to them face to face. When Catholics call on the Saints and Mary the Saints and Mary are no longer in this world they have died and gone on and now are in Heaven. So it is different than asking someone for help with your walk. I don’t really understand the book of Rev. but I’m pretty sure the saints it is reffering to are all believers not just those labeled by the catholic church as Saints.


#17

[quote=Shinobu] Go to Mass and you will see 99% of Mass is solely devoted to Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

Actually 100% of the Mass is devoted to Jesus Christ.:wink:


#18

[quote=Catholic29]Actually 100% of the Mass is devoted to Jesus Christ.:wink:
[/quote]

I only put 99% because of some sermons and also prayers for people in the community ect. :slight_smile: but then again since that is what we are called to do then you are right, it is 100%


#19

[quote=SPOKENWORD] It’s the second.You shall not make yourself any graven images. Dont bow down to anything BUT God. :confused: God Bless
[/quote]

Spoken…you should be confused (a lack of sweet tea in your diet no doubt…) You just misquoted the graven image part of 1st commandment. And yes it’s the 1st (you knew this…don’t smile and play dumb w/me my friend.) for Catholics.
Here’s the relevent parts of Exodus 20:4 & 5 :
“4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God,…” So…since (as I’ve pointed out many times to n-Cs on here!) It is clear that the prohibition is not iconoclastic as you preach, but based upon the intent of the one making and using the image. And since **NO CATHOLIC EVER kneels down before any image to worship it we are not idolators at all. We are not stupid enough to confuse a mass of rock, plaster, metal, or any other created thing with the almighty and ever living God of the Universe. ** So you can pack up this argument and put it in the garbage can where it rightfully belongs my friend.

The Blessed Virgin is never worshipped, but only revered as is due to her unique status in all of human history.

I’m sort of disappointed in you Spoken…you KNOW better than this!
Pax vobiscum,


#20

[quote=Shinobu]This is something I’ve had to tell my family. After coming home from Mass my Dad asked me some questions and one thing he added was, “Oh you know Catholics worship Mary.”. This is a real misunderstanding. My Dad (as far as I know) has never stepped foot into a Catholic Church and yet he has held on to this belief. He got this belief from another person, who is not Catholic and has never been.

I told him gently that they don’t worship Mary, they simply pray to her and ask her to pray for them. Just as people pray to their dead family members, at least that is how I think of it. Go to Mass and you will see 99% of Mass is solely devoted to Jesus Christ. People have a real misunderstanding and most people mean well, they just go by hearsay or what their family tells them.
[/quote]

First of all, I don’t know of any Protestants who pray to their dead family members, and actually the catholic church holds that Mary never died despite scriptual evidence. If I did know of someone doing that I would say that what they were doing is wrong.


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