Catholics Worship Mary!

#21

[quote=bjcros]First of all, I don’t know of any Protestants who pray to their dead family members, and actually the catholic church holds that Mary never died despite scriptual evidence. If I did know of someone doing that I would say that what they were doing is wrong.
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And what scriptural evidence is that sir? I don’t think you can produce any. :irish1:

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#22

[quote=bjcros]But you are not praying to your bed when you kneel down to pray. You also are not praying to your Mother on Mother’s Day(At least I hope not). You should compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. However, you go to Mary in prayer. Prayer is worship. Therefore, you are worshiping Mary.
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**STUPID, STUPID UNBIBLICAL IGNORANT LIE
** [left]You have no supreme worship, so prayer is the best you can do, therefore you define it as always worship. Traditions of men. Anti-bible tradition.

[/left]

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#23

[quote=bjcros]First of all, I don’t know of any Protestants who pray to their dead family members, and actually the catholic church holds that Mary never died despite scriptual evidence. If I did know of someone doing that I would say that what they were doing is wrong.
[/quote]

There is no scripture reference to her death, so I am not certain what you are referring to. Perhaps you are mean her assumption? There is another thread that debates that topic.

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#24

[quote=bjcros]First of all, I don’t know of any Protestants who pray to their dead family members, and actually the catholic church holds that Mary never died despite scriptual evidence. If I did know of someone doing that I would say that what they were doing is wrong.
[/quote]

First off, the Catholic Church does not necisarilly believe that Mary did not die. It is perfectly orthodox Catholicism to believe she died and then was assumed into heaven. She may have died, but she may not have. There is no scriptural proof either way.

Second, what is wrong with praying to someone who has died and is now in heaven? They are certainly much more alive now than you or me. Their prayers would be greater than yours since they have already been perfected by God. “The prayers of a righteous man availeth much.”

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#25

[quote=bjcros]That isn’t a good example to use. Firstly, Jesus doesn’t condone asking those who have passed for help. Secondly, the rich man is already dead and even that he is in hell. Alright I understand asking people for help with your walk and to be accountable. However, that person is living here and I’m talking to them face to face. When Catholics call on the Saints and Mary the Saints and Mary are no longer in this world they have died and gone on and now are in Heaven. So it is different than asking someone for help with your walk. I don’t really understand the book of Rev. but I’m pretty sure the saints it is reffering to are all believers not just those labeled by the catholic church as Saints.
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Of course that is the interpretation you derive from Scripture, through the lense of your particular understanding of what Sola Scriptura (Bible Alone) is.

If the last example was not good to use, try this one catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp

If you really don’t understand the book of Rev., why did God inspire John to write it in the first place? Since apparently not every believer is able to understand it and interpret it correctly for themself, in stark contradiction to what the essence of Sola Scriptura would have us believe. But of course this would be a whole nother thread.

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#26

[quote=bjcros]That isn’t a good example to use. Firstly, Jesus doesn’t condone asking those who have passed for help. Secondly, the rich man is already dead and even that he is in hell. Alright I understand asking people for help with your walk and to be accountable. However, that person is living here and I’m talking to them face to face. When Catholics call on the Saints and Mary the Saints and Mary are no longer in this world they have died and gone on and now are in Heaven. So it is different than asking someone for help with your walk. I don’t really understand the book of Rev. but I’m pretty sure the saints it is reffering to are all believers not just those labeled by the catholic church as Saints.
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Where does Jesus condemn praying to those who have been perfected? If he does not condemn it, then how do you know he does not condone it? I think it is enough that his Church has always taught that it is good to pray to the saints and to ask them to pray for us.

Secondly, those who have left this world have been perfected and are more alive than any of us. God is the god of the living. Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration, so what is so unconcievable that the other great saints can hear us?

You are correct, it is different, it is much better becuase they have already been perfected. “The prayers of a righteous man availeth much.”

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#27

[quote=bjcros]But you are not praying to your bed when you kneel down to pray. You also are not praying to your Mother on Mother’s Day(At least I hope not). You should compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. However, you go to Mary in prayer. Prayer is worship. Therefore, you are worshiping Mary.
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No, you are wrong, prayer is not worship. The word to pray means to beg or to ask. When I pray to Mary I am asking her to pray for me.

Second, you can not worship something by accident. You can only worship what you intend to worship.

Third, there are two levels of honor or worship that is given. First there is latria, which is that worship that is devoted to God alone. The mass would fall into this category. Then there is dulia, which is the devotion which is given to a saint. It would include praying to the saint. Mary recieves what is called hyperdulia which is just what it says. Mary recieves special honor among the saints because she was the greatest of them and because she is the mother of Jesus himself. Dulia and hyperdulia are nothing like latria.

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#28

Hi
What does Honoring your Mother have to do with worshiping her?
God didn’t say to worship your Mother.
Dave.

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#29

[quote=oudave]Hi
What does Honoring your Mother have to do with worshiping her?
God didn’t say to worship your Mother.
Dave.
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Dave,
(Got your PM BTW)
Don’t be so obtuse. How MANY times do Catholics here have to tell you that we DO NOT worship the Blessed Virgin. This is a totally false allegation and you should know better by now.
Pax vobiscum,

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#30

[quote=Church Militant]Dave,
(Got your PM BTW)
Don’t be so obtuse. How MANY times do Catholics here have to tell you that we DO NOT worship the Blessed Virgin. This is a totally false allegation and you should know better by now.
Pax vobiscum,
[/quote]

\

Hey Church
I didnt say anything about you worshiping Mary, I was pointing out that Honoring and Worshiping are two different things.
In Him and Only Him, Dave.

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#31

[quote=oudave]\

Hey Church
I didnt say anything about you worshiping Mary, I was pointing out that Honoring and Worshiping are two different things.
In Him and Only Him, Dave.
[/quote]

Then why did you say such a thing Dave? Has anyone here said that they worship the Blessed Virgin?

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#32

[quote=oudave]Hi
What does Honoring your Mother have to do with worshiping her?
God didn’t say to worship your Mother.
Dave.
[/quote]

What does worship have to do with the Catholic doctrine of Mary?

We honor Mary as Jesus honored her.

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#33

[quote=oudave]\

Hey Church
I didnt say anything about you worshiping Mary, I was pointing out that Honoring and Worshiping are two different things.
In Him and Only Him, Dave.
[/quote]

So you understand that we do not worship Mary now? What we do is honor her. It is called hyperdulia because she is the greatest of the saints. The other saints recieve dulia. God recieves latria, which is worship because he is God.

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#34

[quote=oudave]Hi
What does Honoring your Mother have to do with worshiping her?
God didn’t say to worship your Mother.
Dave.
[/quote]

YEA!
OUtrageousDAVE is back. The house infallible interpreter of the bible he cannot prove is the bible in the bible.
Did you ever figure out who the tyrant was that said we all have to agree on 27 NT wrtings, not 25, 26, 28, and that they must be considered inspired and infallible? Or, did you locate it IN your “bible”?
Did you ever figure out how your interpretation of your “bible” was infallibly the correct one and not those who disagree with you?
You certainly had time to check it out while you were in suspension.

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#35

[quote=oudave]Hi
What does Honoring your Mother have to do with worshiping her?
God didn’t say to worship your Mother.
Dave.
[/quote]

I always thought that worshiping had some connection to recognising someone as the Creator, omnipotent, omniscient, eternal in existence, Supreme ruler of their Creation, judge of all life and death, and to whom Sacrifice is offered as Diety.
But that’s just me.
Now if we could just find a single Marian prayer where any of that is proposed, OUDAVE would have something instead of EMPTY BABBLING or a DEAF 17th century DEMONIC RECORDING!

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#36

charity is the best way to go about these discussions.:slight_smile:

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#37

[quote=jimmy]charity is the best way to go about these discussions.:slight_smile:
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How does that song go…
"If you knew knew OUDAVEY like I know OUDAVEY…"
There is a precept somewhere that says Admonish the sinner…
Charity is always on my agenda, but it comes in many flavors. This one happens to be the one OUDAVE needs, IMHO.
He’s a “Church of Christ” bigot. He has no intention of charity, BTW, especially toward MARY’s honor.
Or toward’s the Church that is responsible for preserving the integrity of his “bible” for One thousand four hundred years, so he could flog Her with his infallible interpretations of it.

I repent of all this if you are the CA Moderator.

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#38

I have something for all your Prots out there:

[quote=Luke1]46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
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Come on Prots risk Hellfire and say O Blessed Virgin!!! Its right there, how many times have you talked about Her as some sack of potatoes and it NEVER NEVER EVEN CROSSED YOUR MIND to ever call Her BLESSED!!! when it says to!!!
Lord have mercy on us, we fear you, your Mother is Blessed!!!

Also I suggest you refresh yourselves with good old Proverbs 31 (all of it), here is the best part:

28 Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: 29 “Many women have done excellently, but you surpass them all.” 30 Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised. 31 Give her of the fruit of her hands, and let her works praise her in the gates.

Praise and Honor O Blessed Virgin!!! From GENERATION TO GENERATION!!!

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#39

[quote=Catholic Dude]I have something for all your Prots out there:

Come on Prots risk Hellfire and say O Blessed Virgin!!! Its right there, how many times have you talked about Her as some sack of potatoes and it NEVER NEVER EVEN CROSSED YOUR MIND to ever call Her BLESSED!!! when it says to!!!
Lord have mercy on us, we fear you, your Mother is Blessed!!!

Also I suggest you refresh yourselves with good old Proverbs 31 (all of it), here is the best part:

Praise and Honor O Blessed Virgin!!! From GENERATION TO GENERATION!!!
[/quote]

You can look at the proclamaition of the angel to Mary. He greets her as, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women.”

That is an angel speaking.

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#40

And further along those lines, did Jesus stop honoring His mother once she entered heaven? I have had protestants tell me that family relationships don’t exist any more in heaven, so He doesn’t honor Mary as His mother any more. :eek:

Hmm, does that mean that Jesus has no Father in heaven either?

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