It seems like a subtle distinction to me.
If you take up learning Russian or playing the flute or decide we need campaign finance rreform, you do so alone when you make your decision – and even if allt hose who share that with you were to lose the passion you would still have yours, possibly – so you could do these things alone. You just couldn’t do much in response to your new interest alone. You can only speak your second language to yourself for so long before it stops reinforcing itself. You can’t really play the flute silently. You can want a policy change alone but you can’t effect one alone.
Maybe being a Christian is like that. You can certainly, potentially, be the only one. But you can’t grow as much or do as much about it alone. And of course you can’t be a Christian while rejecting allt he other Christians.
So the issue isn’t really whether you can be saved alone, but whether you can expect to be accepted by the Lord while rejecting His other sons and daughters. I believe the answer to that is in Scripture: You can’t love God while hating your brother. But what if someone doesn’t hate or reject other Christians but just doesn’t like institutions of any kind – wouldn’t God understand the person’s individualistic nature and work with it? I’m confused about this right now.
While I visit this forum from time to time, I have never posted before but felt compelled to do so now in response to the tenor of this discussion.
I fail to see why a theological question of the kind posed by the OP needs to result in these types of un-intellectual attacks on the Presiding Bishop. I would have no problem if someone wished to discuss her views or those of the Episcopal Church or the wider Anglican Communion; but to attack her on the basis of her appearance or the color or her mitre/vestments or go so far as to reference the anti-christ is beyond civil discussion.
As far as I am concerned, these comments are no better than when someone like Bill Maher referred to the Pope as a Nazi; something to which I also take an offense, as I would expect the Catholics on this board to feel as well. That being said, I feel that these kinds of slights made at protestant religious figures do nothing but fuel the fire for similar hateful attacks made on Catholics and as a result hurt the legitimate theological discussion that takes place here and elsewhere.
I ask that those of you who disagree with the President Bishop, or the Episcopal Church, or other Protestant denominations, please extrapolate those disagreements in an intelligent fashion, just as I would hope the other Protestants on this board would do in discussing their disagreements with the Catholic Church.
She actually does? Both have a far-left, lesbian-friendly agenda and an axe to grind against Christianity. I just love that pic of Lady Katherine with the waves behind her…you can just hear Brian Wilson from the Beach Boys singing, “I…I love the colorful clothes she wears! And the way the sunlight plays upon her haiiir…”
Any woman that would dare to say Christ is “a” way to God, not “the” way, any priestess that **claims abortion is a blessing **or that we cannot be saved as individuals or would bring litigation against anyone who disagrees with her, anyone who would have the audacity to do the things she has done does not deserve the titular respect you give to her. I refuse to honor her title or her actions or give dignity to the disgusting anti-Christian tripe that she tries to pawn off on people. I can only hope that people will leave that denomination in droves for either the more traditional and Christ-centered new Anglican province in North America or the Catholic Church. This woman is not truly ordained in the first place but to make matters worse, she is teaching full-blown diabolical ideas.
She did indeed. That’s why I find Eakswim’s whole discussion not very valid because anything Schiori says is garbage anyway. She has no credibility, period. For one thing, women’s ordination is heresy. There’s one problem. Secondly, female bishops is even more a heresy. Third, the woman was a marine biologist/oceanographer and a fallen-away Catholic so with that background, heck, who couldn’t take that seriously? :shrug:
Add to that the fact that she has made it clear that all religions are basically the same in leading people to God, gays and lesbians should be married, and the way she has cruelly bogged down parishes and dioceses in litigation suing the pants off them when they try to leave her clutches, and you have one horrible woman. On top of that, if you speak to any Anglican priests or clergy or lay people in the Anglican diocese in my area, she’s anathema. She has convoked councils against their canon law, broken every rule in the book, and is terribly personal when it comes to payback. Schiori looks at the presiding bishop’s role not as a primus inter pares but rather as a kind of Episcopal papacy. She views the church as a hierarchy with the PB and higher-ups as having complete control over each diocese when that is not at all the case. Bishop Schofield, Iker, Duncan, and a host of others have disagreed completely with her church polity beliefs and who governance works. And when they have disagreed they’ve been ridiculed and defrocked by Lady Katherine.
This woman has neo-pagan beliefs, has mocked the Catholic Church as having members who have too many kids and irresponsibly don’t use birth control while Episcopalians are mature, focused, and responsible with their children. She drew the ire of many Catholics with that statement.
Then, she is a good friend of Shelby Spong and invited him to speak in her diocese of Nevada years back in a public lecture called “God and beyond theism” in which the jist of the lecture was about the idea that god is a joke. God is a security blanket for weak-minded people who need a saviour as a teddy bear. She also sat there while Spong called what God did to Jesus “child abuse,” and an absurdity. She sat by in 2006 as the Bible was declared to be an “anti semitic book” at their General Convention. We could go on and on.
My point in all this is that she is absolutely, fundamentally lacking in credibility or the common sense required of clergy leadership. Her comments are not worthy of a discussion on any thread. If people don’t like the tone of this post, so be it. That’s my opinion. Find someone worthy of a discussion.
The problem is not the color of the mitre/vestments the problem is that this women how advocates abortion is pretending to be a Bishop, and that the Denomination that she is apart of lets her pretend to be one. I pray that the whole of the Episcopal communion will rise up and put a stop to these kind of thing.
I for one can take nothing she says as long as she insist on acting as is she is a Bishop with any amount of serious thought. At this time she is but a clown and making a circus out of the Episcopal commune.
Great name! Scott here, too. I agree with everything you said EXCEPT the mitre and vestments colors. Those are pretty dang rough colors, they need to go along with the lady who is wearing them!
And what is encouraging for me is seeing that the Episcopal Church is an AGING, tiring, old, declining, waning denomination that is dying on the vine. Add to that the mass exodus of Anglicans with a conscience who joined the new province, and they’re really a mess. Their purses are also being drained by suing everyone in North America over property. They’re not recruiting new parishoners, they’re older than the hills, they stand for nothing, and they’ll eventually go broke.
It just further demonstrates that the idea of “hey, let’s make our denomination open, let anyone abort, cavort, be in a gay marriage, stem cell themselves to death, cohabitate, heck, nothing’s evil anymore!” DOESN’T GROW A CHURCH. People who live a libertine, sinful life by and large don’t want a church and the few that do realize they’re only lying to themselves. And the rest of the hapless people who haven’t a clue who stick around because they don’t have the moral courage to stand up against sin have such small families due to selfishness that they don’t grow. Christ Church Plano was an Anglican church that broke off from the Episcopalians years ago after losing their parish in litgation if memory serves. This pastor of theirs, Roseberry, was conservative and traditional and very dynamic in his evangelism. He held services in living rooms and eventually they grew from like 50 people to thousands. They are now the LARGEST Anglican parish in the United States. They did it through prayer, tradition, evangelism, and holding to Anglican values, not selling their souls to the devil to get numbers.
Katherine Schiori is the greatest Catholic and Evangelical recruiting tool in years. Listening to one of her sermons with a critical and intelligent mind can have only one effect–get me out of here!!