CCC 2088-89: Hopelessly Muddled


#1

I am trying to understand CCC 2088 and 2089, but they just seem so muddled to me. I’m hoping someone else is able to figure out what’s going on:

2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11

I can’t quite see the difference between these different sins. Voluntary doubt sounds to me exactly like incredulity. I can’t quite distinguish heresy from doubt, at least according to the definitions given here. I am also unsure how to look at involuntary doubt as a sin against faith, considering that sin by its very natury must be voluntary.

Peace and God bless


#2

It seems to me that the difference between voluntary doubt and an act of heresy consists in the manner in which the individual approaches the dogma he is to reject. Voluntary doubt, in this sense, presumes an inability or unwillingness to learn or to understand said dogma. It presumes a sort of spiritual sloth. Heresy proceeds from a position of knowledge. In other words, the individual in question knows in detail the tenets of a particular dogma and rejects it anyway. Heresy, unlike voluntary doubt, is an active, rather than passive, rejection of a teaching.


#3

Annnnnyone?


#4

Incredulity is the fruit of voluntary doubt. 2088 explains the difference between voluntary and involuntary doubt, and 2089 explains what voluntary doubt evolves into when nurtured. Incredulity is more than just a doubt, it is an assertion of disbelief. This is part of a subtext on faith. It’s basic instruction on how to nurture and grow faith, and the obstacles to one doing so.

For example:
I’ve never heard of God, and you come and tell me God exists. I hear you say so, but I wonder if you really know what you’re talking about (involuntary doubt). I think about it some more, but choose to think more on there not being a God rather than it being true (voluntary doubt). I research the teachings of the church, know them, but will not accept them as truth (incredulity) because I’ve spent more time doubting God’s existence than I have pondering the possibility of God’s existence.

I hope that made sense…


#5

One thing that you are wrong on here is that it is a sin NOT to follow the Roman Catholic Church. I follow Christ and I doubt that He thinks it’s a sin. He will be this one judging me, and for that I’m glad.


#6

Here is where the problem comes in, (“I doubt” He thinks it’s a sin.) You are setting yourself up as the judge. You decide what is sin and what is not. Human secularism, sin is relative, I’m not as bad as the rest of the heathens, therefore I’m not sinning. I get to choose what is sin and what is not. The problem is Jesus left a Church to decide that, it’s clear in Scripture.

[quote=www.drbo.org] Acts 20, 28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
[/quote]

[quote=www.drbo.org] Matthew 18, 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
[/quote]


#7

Good points. Further, heresy is “obstinate”. In other words, it is long lasting and continues even after you have been informed on the matter. Second, heresy is “post-baptismal.” Only one who has been baptized can technically be a heretic. Anyone can doubt.


#8

Annnnnyone?
[/quote]

I think Other Erics’ response is pretty clear. What points in Erics’ post do you need further clarification on.


#9

If voluntary doubt “refuses” to accept a Church teaching, that presumes that the person knows the teaching, since one can’t refuse what one doesn’t know. Voluntary doubt then proceeds from a position of knowledge as well.


#10

Perhaps 2088 lists the two general categories (voluntary and involuntary) while 2089 list the types of doubt.

For example, with sin, the Church speaks of mortal and venial sins as the two general categories, but then also lists the types of sin (murder, fornication, etc.) Depending upon the circumstances (full knowledge, complete consent), the same sin might either be mortal or venial.

I’m just hypothesizing here, so I could very well be wrong. Certainly, at the very least, there is overlap in the different terms. Is there anything wrong with that?

Also, I don’t think that by “involuntary” they mean that the person is completely in the dark. It is described as a “hesitation in believing”. It’s not quite as bad as a flat-out refusal to believe, but it’s not an innocent “I just don’t know any better.” If we have faith, we do not hesitate in accepting the Church’s teaching, even if we do not completely understand it.

Some Catholic theologian (the name escapes me at the moment) said “A thousand questions do not a doubt make”. We can question Church teaching, but from a place of faith, not a place of doubt. We question to understand that which we already know and believe to be true.


#11

Tom;3383631]Here is where the problem comes in, (“I doubt” He thinks it’s a sin.) You are setting yourself up as the judge.

The problem is the Roman Catholic Church thinks that it is the judge.

You decide what is sin and what is not.

The Scriptures are what decides what is sin and what is not.

Human secularism, sin is relative, I’m not as bad as the rest of the heathens, therefore I’m not sinning. I get to choose what is sin and what is not.

Your assumptions of me could not be further from the truth.

The problem is Jesus left a Church to decide that, it’s clear in Scripture.

I agree that Jesus left his church to guide those who believe in him, the Scriptures also tell us in 1 Thess 5 to test all things to see wheather they are from God, (all things would include things from the Church.)

Another problem is that the leaders of every church are men, and all men are sinners.


#12

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