Ccc 841

I tend to bounce back and forth of my acceptance of this teaching, but currently -I am 100% positive that it is false, and that the Church is officially in error as long as She continues claiming it.

How can murderers worship the same God that I do. :confused:

This may help:

Are you referring to murderers in general, or does this refer to what the article that Marty1818 quoted, speakign about Muslims?
If it is the second… well I didn’t read the whole thing, but only would like to say I don’t think it is good to equal muslims wirth murderers? I hope that is not what you meant?
If it is the first thing (murderers in general) - why would they not worship the same God? They are also people. I don’t say this to justify murder, but just to stress that people are led to terrible things sometiems and DO terrible things sometimes, we are all sinners aren’t we… that doesn^t mean we cannot be worshipping the same God. We can be very misled and sin a lot and still, in our hearts, worship the exact same God… and that is good, then we also are close to a path BACK to GOODNESS… am I not right??? I think I am… :o


See this…

So let me get this correct, your basing your believe that the Muslim religion comes straight from the devil, or hell, as you put it in your other post, because of those people who kill and protest? Well, should I base my beliefs on Catholicism by the liberals or dissenter or those who are lapsed Catholics who only go to mass maybe once a year? Or should I base my beliefs on official teaching, and never mind those liberal-dissenters-lapsed Catholics? Who, by the way, make up the second biggest religion in the world–lapsed Catholics, or so I’ve been told.

Every single religion has their extremist groups and should not be judge by that same group.

Roughly 20,000 women are killed every year in so called “honor killings” in the middle east and southwest Asia -predominantly Muslim regions… :frowning:

Mohammed killed hundreds if not thousands of people himself… In the name of god… :o

You didn’t answer my questions.

And we Christians have never gone on any crusades that shouldn’t have happened.

Wasn’t St. Paul a murderer?:confused:

The Crusades were created for the very purpose of protecting Christian migrants from the Muslims, who would often molest them on their way to the Holy Land…

…But the term “crusade” was later used for all religious conflicts or wars whether they were approved by the Pope or not. The term has been abused.

…and no, I think Islam comes from hell because Mohammed learned about “god” from a Jinn, who claimed to be St. Michael. The Jinn or genies, according to Islam are not supposed to be called upon, or talked to -but that didn’t stop Mohammed. :rolleyes:

It is ridiculous to accuse all Muslims of being murderers. Furthermore, there have been plenty of murderers throughout history who are Christians (at least nominally so).

I do agree that not all Muslims are murderers, but those that aren’t are not following their faith… Islam calls its followers to kill.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

nothing in this is false. muslims do worship the God of abraham.

think about this - God’s plan of salvation includes mass murderers and terrorists, because it includes all humans. it is each individual’s choices that determine their ultimate destination.

these brave muslims in libya prove that not all are terrorists/murderers.

i read recently about muslims in an area where christian churches were attacked, surrounding a church holding signs saying, ‘before you can kill them, you’ll have to kill us.’

i think i was lucky to see those news stories, since good news doesn’t sell papers. :frowning:

lastly, if a religion is to be judged only by its criminal members, we catholics would be in trouble, too.

triumph guy, technically, no, but -

Then they cast [Stephen] out of the city and stoned him; and the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. And as they were stoning Stephen, he prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 And he knelt down and cried with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
And Saul was consenting to his death.
Acts 7:58-60, 8:1 (RSV)

That’s our st. paul. ‘For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.’ 1 Cor 15:9 (RSV)

just goes to show, “The church is a hospital for sinners, not just a museum for saints.” i don’t know who said that. it’s been attributed to several people.

Well do we associate the hundreds of thousands of murderous acts of abortion that occur in predominantly-Christian regions with the Christianity itself? No, of course not.

Also, do you realize that Islam a majority of the Islamic population is found outside of the region of the Middle East and Southwest Asia? Furthermore, not every aspect of the culture of that region is the result of Islam, and even where it is, Islam is not monolithic.

Not when he was Christian. In fact his Christian faith prevented him from killing.

TEPO, you are swallowing a camel and straining at a gnat. if all you want is proof that muslims are evil, say so.

none of the evils you list are evidence that muslims do not worship the god of abraham. so do we. that makes ccc 841 correct.

Well, according to Islam abortions are just fine and dandy up to I believe the 2nd trimester… So they can kill their babies and their women as well as others who “deserve” it.

Since when are all Muslims murderers? It is grossly fallacious thinking to make such a statement.

Furthermore, we are all murderers, since it was our sins, collectively and individually that put Our Blessed Lord on that cross.

CCC 841 is correct and you are dead wrong.

You completely side-stepped my question. Why don’t you just come out and be honest? This thread is about nothing other than hate–yours.

Closed pending review by moderator Julian Peters

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit