Chalice Material

This also should be interesting. :thumbsup:

I voted no. The chalice should be made of precious metal because it is used to hold the Precious Blood of Jesus.

matthew

You’re probably right!! :thumbsup:

I voted “no”, because it is a liturgical abuse to use anything else other than noble metals, and the reason for this is because throughout the 2 yrs. that the Church has existed: People found glass chalices breaking.

I wonder what Jesus used?

Its interesting that we can only have male priests because Jesus only chose men and we can only use wheat for hosts because thats what Jesus used and we can only use male terms for God because that’s what Jesus used…
So, did he use a precious metal vessel studded with gems? Or is his example to be selectively ignored?

It is not in the Canon Law or the Catechism, so it must be in the GIRM on what the chalice must be made of. Anyone got the section?

PF

There are some that believe the small bowl at the top of this chalice is the actual chalice Jesus used.
http://camelot.celtic-twilight.com/art/grailchalices/valenza_holychalice.jpg

IT would be difficult to line these with gold as required.

if i am not mistakened, doesn’t the law call for a precious material… and isn’t the defintion of "precious’ dependent upon the culture… ??? at my parish, we have waterford crystal chalices, patens, etc. the bishop has granted us approval to use them, since for the time being they are the most precious vessels we have. we are small parish, so i think that is why we have been granted permission…

From Jimmy Akin’s book “Mass Confusion:” (page 189)

"Vessels should be made from materials that are solid and that in the particular region are regarded as noble. The conference of bishops will be the judge in this matter. But preference is to be given to materials that do not break easily or become unusable (GIRM 289-290).

Vessels made from metal should ordinarily be gilded on the inside if the metal is one that rusts; gilding is not necessary if the metal is more precious than gold and does not rust (GIRM 294).

I wonder what Jesus used?

Its interesting that we can only have male priests because Jesus only chose men and we can only use wheat for hosts because thats what Jesus used and we can only use male terms for God because that’s what Jesus used…
So, did he use a precious metal vessel studded with gems? Or is his example to be selectively ignored?

Though I wouldn’t count the examples you gave as in the same league with what type of chalice should be used (they’d be higher in my opinion as they are direct examples and specific things that would call notice) the “cup” used in the Bible doesn’t seem to be given a specific description… It would be more so important to look at what is held inside the Chalice after the Consecration… Both wine and the Precious Body and Blood of Christ.
The cup we choose holds Our Lord in it! Why would you not want to use the most precious thing you can find?

All I know is that wine glasses make horrible vessels. It turns Holy Communion into what appears to be a very odd wine tasting.

I recall very clearly when our parish’s “liturgy coordinator” made it clear to eveyone that we would never stop using cheap wine glasses and glass dessert dishes to distribute Holy Communion. Not only could we not afford the correct vessels, the cheap wine glasses and glass dessert dishes emphasized the “communal meal” aspect of the Mass.

Our former pastor finally caught-on and there was a notice in our bulletin that we needed to raise $5K for proper sacred vessels. Within a month they were in service…

I wonder what Jesus used?

Its interesting that we can only have male priests because Jesus only chose men and we can only use wheat for hosts because thats what Jesus used and we can only use male terms for God because that’s what Jesus used…
So, did he use a precious metal vessel studded with gems? Or is his example to be selectively ignored?

Though I wouldn’t count the examples you gave as in the same league with what type of chalice should be used (they’d be higher in my opinion as they are direct examples and specific things that would call notice) the “cup” used in the Bible doesn’t seem to be given a specific description… It would be more so important to look at what is held inside the Chalice after the Consecration… Both wine and the Precious Body and Blood of Christ.
The cup we choose holds Our Lord in it! Why would you not want to use the most precious thing you can find?

[quote=WanderAimlessly]It is not in the Canon Law or the Catechism, so it must be in the GIRM on what the chalice must be made of. Anyone got the section?
[/quote]

GIRM 327-334

Redemptionis Sacramentum 117-120

[quote=frdave20]if i am not mistakened, doesn’t the law call for a precious material… and isn’t the defintion of "precious’ dependent upon the culture… ??? at my parish, we have waterford crystal chalices, patens, etc. the bishop has granted us approval to use them, since for the time being they are the most precious vessels we have. we are small parish, so i think that is why we have been granted permission…
[/quote]

You only mention one of several “qualifying” attributes. They must be of 1. Noble or precious material which can be defined by local custom. 2. They must not be of material that is easily broken.
3. They should be lined on the inside with gold if not made of gold or other precious metal. 4. They should be distinctive and not look like common cups or glasses. Many parishes used simple everyday wine glasses. A Chalice is not a “wine glass” and should not look like one.

Does your waterford crystal chalices, patens, etc. meet all of these?

**A key word here is reprobated (cease immediately so the force of custom does not prevail)


from RS:

117.** Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.205 The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,206 so that honor will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided.** Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily.** This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.207

[quote=patg]I wonder what Jesus used?

Its interesting that we can only have male priests because Jesus only chose men and we can only use wheat for hosts because thats what Jesus used and we can only use male terms for God because that’s what Jesus used…
So, did he use a precious metal vessel studded with gems? Or is his example to be selectively ignored?
[/quote]

He could have used wooden chalice. But now we must use the precious materials for the PRECIOUS BLOOD of JESUS CHRIST. It is just like using the best materials like plates for our guests.

Glass or ceramics or porcelain chalice or any breakable chalice is not allowed by the Holy See. It is in the GIRM

I started this thread based on OPINION not on FACT. :rolleyes: :bigyikes: :eek:

[quote=CatholicCid]Though I wouldn’t count the examples you gave as in the same league with what type of chalice should be used (they’d be higher in my opinion as they are direct examples and specific things that would call notice) the “cup” used in the Bible doesn’t seem to be given a specific description… It would be more so important to look at what is held inside the Chalice after the Consecration… Both wine and the Precious Body and Blood of Christ.
The cup we choose holds Our Lord in it! Why would you not want to use the most precious thing you can find?
[/quote]

I think you have it backwards. At least the things I mentioned made sense in the mind of a first century Jew.

We are talking about the person who preached the total rejection of all earthly riches, power, and the related symbols! And we think its not only right, but somehow required to consecrate his body and blood in something which is an exact symbol of everything he rejected??? That is an insult.

I’m sure that in many cases it makes us feel good - that we are doing something for Jesus - but I have my doubts.

We are talking about the person who preached the total rejection of all earthly riches, power, and the related symbols! And we think its not only right, but somehow required to consecrate his body and blood in something which is an exact symbol of everything he rejected??? That is an insult.

I’m sure that in many cases it makes us feel good - that we are doing something for Jesus - but I have my doubts.

I don’t think these things are to rejected for their own sake but for God’s. When used for communion vessles precious metels are most appropriate.

BTW, the one of the glass chalices at the church here shattered recently. It will be replaced with something durable and beautiful. The pastor said not something just out of a catalog.

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