charismatic movemet (tounges,slain in spirit,etc.)


#1

I went to this charismatic praying group in my hometown and I was pretty shocked ....

in the beggining they all sing songs of glory but than in some moment they start speaking in language no one understands but one person (even the ones speaking it don't understand it :confused: ).....that person has "gift of translation".....than in one moment priest starts walknig around and most people fall uncouncious for few seconds they call this "slain in spirit"

this movement is getting popular in my country Croatia but I don't really like it...

even most priests are against it and my reasons are following : I explore other religions sometimes and I saw completly(or almost) same thing in new age movement,hinduism but most famous ones are in protestant movement especially their minister Benny Hinn.
Also problem with that movement in protestantism is that some pastors doing all of this and even "healing" were just ripping of naive believers

can you guys please tell me church teaching about this and your opinions? also if you have some scripture and early church fathers to back it up it would mean a lot :)


#2

I got to admit, I hear that with some skepticism myself.


#3

I grew up in an old-time Pentecostal denomination and spent two decades in Pentecostal/charismatic churches. I will not criticize the Catholic charismatic movement, but I will stay far away from it, unless God sends me into it by means of a burning-bush experience.


#4

The Charismatic movement is a controversial movement within the Catholic Church.

There is (or should be) no requirement for you to worship at Charismatic events.
You do not have to like it. you do not have to believe that the individuals are experiencing genuine manifestations, or that any manifestations come from God.

The Proponents of the Charismatic movement would show biblical support for the Charisms (The ā€œCharasmatic gifts of the spiritā€, particularly quoting Corinthians chapters 11 - 14 (I think thatā€™s the right book)
They would also point out that Blessed Pope John Paul II deleberately appointed a Charismatic priest as his Personal Chaplin (Preacher to the Papal Household). Our current Holy Father has taken the unusual step of retaining this pries in his position and not replacing him with his own choice of preacher.

Most dioceses will have an official Diocesan liaison or representative who is responsible for coordinating with this movement.

St Paul warns us strongly about the importance of ā€œDiscerning the spiritsā€. when people deliberately open themselves up to direct spiritual influence in the manner of the Charismatics they open themselves up to effects from other spirits (demons) and to purely phsycological effects.
This movement is therefore potentially dangerous - especially when not guided by experienced holy people with the gift of discernment.

If you dont like this form of spirituality, and dont feel the Lord telling you that you should overcome this dislike, then we are the ā€œCatholicā€ Church that word man ā€œUniversalā€.
there are many other branches of spirituality available to you, and several should be represented in your area. Most have deep traditional roots.
Your priests should be able to guide you to groups that are active such as
Third Order Regular groups from many of the traditional Orders (Benedictines, Fransiscans etcā€¦)
Knights of St. Columbus
Legion of Mary
Opus Dei
Society of St. Vincent de Paul

I believe that being involved in a movement like one of these is of massive benefit to anyone who takes their spiritual journey seriously.
The choice of group and type of spirituality is a personal one and should be based on a mixture of Vocational discernment, and personal and cultural taste preferencesā€¦
However all groups should be checked to ensure they are faithful to the Teachings and Discipline of the Church.


#5

Charismatic Christians of any denomination can seem quite strange as they worship in a way that is not what we usually see in our traditional services. If youā€™re skeptical then do not return. The people participating are letting themselves be lead by the Spirit of God, it snā€™t for everyone.


#6

[quote="mountee, post:5, topic:296192"]
Charismatic Christians of any denomination can seem quite strange as they worship in a way that is not what we usually see in our traditional services. If you're skeptical then do not return. The people participating are letting themselves be lead by the Spirit of God, it sn't for everyone.

[/quote]

I would have said that the people participating are letting themselves be led by what they perceive to be the Spirit of God.


#7

Iā€™ve been to these kind of things beforeā€¦ Theyā€™re rather strange at first!

That said, I see no harm in attending. For myself personally it is not how I would praise Jesus but that is down to personal preferencesā€¦ So no harm done whether you take part or not.

God bless,
clemthecatholic


#8

[quote="DaveBj, post:6, topic:296192"]
I would have said that the people participating are letting themselves be led by what they perceive to be the Spirit of God.

[/quote]

I will have to agree on this one....besides some charismatics are very very prideful and look down on others thinking they are favoured by Jesus......most that I know are very fanatical and think that everything bad that happens(no matter how small and insignificant) is planned by satan himself....they sell books about spirits and demons in church buildings...especially "Deliverance and Inner Healing" by John and Mark Sandford.

they claim that every sin we do is forced upon us by demon (we have no free will), if your father was alcoholic or theif you as his child will inherit "his deamons and his sins" and has to repent from them...in other words you have to repent from stuff you never did


#9

[quote="phoenix1950, post:8, topic:296192"]
I will have to agree on this one....besides some charismatics are very very prideful and look down on others thinking they are favoured by Jesus......most that I know are very fanatical and think that everything bad that happens(no matter how small and insignificant) is planned by satan himself....they sell books about spirits and demons in church buildings...especially "Deliverance and Inner Healing" by John and Mark Sandford.

they claim that every sin we do is forced upon us by demon (we have no free will), if your father was alcoholic or theif you as his child will inherit "his deamons and his sins" and has to repent from them...in other words you have to repent from stuff you never did

[/quote]

Please don't tar all Charismatics with the same brush. Many parts of the Charismatic movement are led by good level headed people. Others are indeed polluted by poor catechises, and let themselves be blown about by every little fad or idea.
But this issue of poor catechises is in no way restricted to the Charismatic movement it is an endemic problem across much of the Church.
There are many groups trying to combat this very problem. many of those groups have close ties to the charismatic movement or are part of it.


#10

[quote="anruari, post:9, topic:296192"]
Please don't tar all Charismatics with the same brush. Many parts of the Charismatic movement are led by good level headed people. Others are indeed polluted by poor catechises, and let themselves be blown about by every little fad or idea.
But this issue of poor catechises is in no way restricted to the Charismatic movement it is an endemic problem across much of the Church.
There are many groups trying to combat this very problem. many of those groups have close ties to the charismatic movement or are part of it.

[/quote]

I agree with what you have said above. I have gained a lot by my participation in Catholic charismatic renewal for many years. We were fortunate to have a holy priest to be our liason with our bishop. He led us in ways so as to avoid pitfalls.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church talks about the charisms of the Holy Spirit....they do exist!

All renewal groups within the Church, whether charismatic or not, need constant renewal and perfecting. Some more than others!


#11

you are right ā€¦I apologize

it was not my intention to insult anyone althought it is true that I am little close minded about the subjectā€¦reason I opened this post was to check out are there any reasonable scripture quotes or writtings of church fathers that say anything about this phenomena

I guess I met the wrong part of charismatic movementā€¦but I still donā€™t understand the point of it


#12

I am no expert in this although I have recently been involved with a Catholic Charismatic Renewal group. I think one needs to approach these groups with a level head. Ask some questions: Who are the leaders? Is the movement approved by the Bishop of the diocese?, What kind of guidance and support is given? Besides the original orientation to the group, such as Life in the Spirit Seminar, is there ongoing education and support to the individual parish groups? Some of these groups were lay led and, while well meaning, kind of got off target. A recent Conference I attended was heavy on orthodoxy as kind of a counter to some of the ā€œdriftā€.

On the other hand, some really holy people are encountered in these groups. I mean that they are inspiring in their simplicity and evident joy and love of God. Sometimes there is a palpable presence of the Holy Spirit and that is awesome.

I really love some of what goes on in the Charismatic renewal. I like the Catholic ā€œboundariesā€ of it as I feel safe within them. There really is a contemplative aspect to ones individual participation. That being said, it is perfectly ok to find another form of spirituality to practice. Or several. We all have our own path. We are a diverse Church. Isnā€™t that wonderful!


#13

[quote="Dorothy, post:10, topic:296192"]
I agree with what you have said above. I have gained a lot by my participation in Catholic charismatic renewal for many years. We were fortunate to have a holy priest to be our liason with our bishop. He led us in ways so as to avoid pitfalls.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church talks about the charisms of the Holy Spirit....they do exist!

All renewal groups within the Church, whether charismatic or not, need constant renewal and perfecting. Some more than others!

[/quote]

We have a Catholic Church in our area that offers a Healing Prayer Service once a month. They always start with singing praises to God in english occasionally a little bit of "tongues" gets mixed in and then Mass is celebrated. The healing cannont be performed without the Catholic Priest celebrating the Mass. After, The Blessed Sacrament is exposed in Adoration and people go up to the different Healing Prayer groups and can ask for healing.

I have gone a handful of times and only once did one of the healing ministers pray in tongues and that was one of the reasons I went to that group because I wanted to experience that and knew this person had that gift. It was not scary; it was very beautiful.

For more information on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal:

  1. Great book titled, The Charism of Tongues: A Gift of Prayer and Edification by Father Michael Sears. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for our own personal consumption but are to be used to build up the Church and its members for healing, deliverance and to encourage.

queenship.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=6569

  1. Another great book titled, Sober Intoxication of the Spirit Part Two, Born Again of Water and The Spirit by Raniero Cantalamessa, O.F.M. CAP. 2 paragraphs from this book have special meaning in helping to explain the Catholic Charismatic Renewal:

He describes these healing groups as being "pleasing to Jesus and what makes them so precious to God is their absolute poverty, the fact that they have no past and hardly any future. They are almost a "nothing," like certain life forms that appear in the morning and disappear in the evening, reabsorbed into the great bosom of life, or like a little cloud that calmly disappears from the sky after having poured out all its water."

"Jesus is looking for something that will be useful to him, for an instant, something that wants nothing and asks for nothing in return for pleasing God and for making His power and His wishes shine forth in the world."

He also states in his book, "It was 1975, and I was invited to a prayer group in rome. I came with quite a critical attitude, so the leader was telling people, "Do not go to that friar. He is an enemy of the renewal!" However, seeing a priest among them, some of them asked me to hear their confessions. It was the first real charismatic shock of my life. I had never seen such genuine repentance. Sins seemed to fall away from their souls like stones, and there were tears of joy at the end. I could only say to myself, "God is here!"

  1. We have to remember that these Gifts of The Holy Spirit that God gives us when we ask are used to Glorify Jesus not us. We are just His empty vessels and we allow His will to be used through us and its His Healing Power not ours that heals the person that is requesting healing.

#14

Sticky: MORATORIUM: Charismatic Movement
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