Obviously we are light years apart in our thoughts on CCR.
Well, after this post I see we are in agreement on some points.
Absolutely not-actually less likely These are not Parlor games, and the gift which I understand would more in keeping with this discussion would be Knowledge.
I peronally would never take someone’s boasting of a gift as an indication that they did possess a gift. I would want to know who discerned the gift, and the qualifications of the discerner.
I’m glad you responded that way, because it is precisely how I see that issue.
You are mixing apples and oranges when you try to speak of renewal in general and CCR.
My point in another series of posts to Makerteacher was that the originals in the CCR had a much broader vision. My opinion is that it is the clinging to certain practices that relegates the CCR to a “style” or “movement” amongst many. And I still suggest that it doesn’t have to be that way, although the likelihood of it reaching any broader goal at this point in time is getting more and more remote. The point of my question was to get at the issue of what essentially renewal is all about at the individual level.
CCR does not believe that the Holy Spirit comes only through CCR. I believe that this is the root of most outsiders objection to CCR.
Possibly. It’s never been my problem with CCR. I know absolutely that the Holy Spirit acts and moves in hearts and minds independent of CCR. In fact, there is a broad understanding of the work of God in us contained in 2000 years of authentic Catholic Christian teaching.
We are enthusiastic, but not because we think we are better, or have something you don’t have. We all have the Holy Spirit. We just want everyone to realize what they have.
I want to make it clear, I have no problem with enthusiasm, and the goal here is the same as mine.
Baptism in the Spirit is a physical surrendering to Jesus. In CCR there is usually a service involved.
This is where I begin to have a problem. The service, and what it entails. I think it is borrowed protestantism, in thinking and practice.
This is a term, usually indicitive of CCR, but anyone can and should turn their life and will over to Jesus.
Just call it “surrendering to Jesus”
I would be willing to call it that, if there wasn’t any “tongues” preparation and inducement leading me to think that those in charge actually believe that “tongues” is the primary, if not only, indicator of the in filling of the Holy Spirit, and are not willing to leave it up to the Holy Spirit.
This is something I should be asking you.
Since you asked. Everything about the history of Christianity, Holy Tradition and Holy Scripture tells me that, ***if left to the working of the Holy Spirit, ***lives are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit with the incidence of tongues as a rare event and usually for a specific reason we may only later understand.
CCR came into the Church because the Holy Spirit was left on the back shelf for too long.
I suspect that is true. As a convert I don’t know it for a fact personally.
This is a specific form of renewal.
It has become so, yes.
Any renewal which encourages Catholics to allow the Spirit to work through them is wonderful.
Agreed. Again Amen.
Many people believe that this renewal should encompass the entire Church, and I agree it should, but we do need to take into consideration the style of worship which people prefer. There is nothing wrong with allowing people to choose between legitimate styles.
As it is, it won’t encompass the entire church and will remain a “style”, and generally I think that is sad. But I will give it credit for stimulating discussion of the central issue you have mentioned, ie. surrendering our lives to Jesus Christ. That we can agree on as well, yes?