Chastity and Jason Evert... all it's cracked up 2 be??


#1

My name is Megan Dillon and I, personally, when i left Jason’s speach, felt so renewed and i felt like that man made a huge difference in my life. But really, now that i look back on it, i feel kind of brainwashed to be honest. i’ve heard no negetive thoughts on his speach in these forums and on the website (whether it’s the fact that you guys just don’t post them or whether there are none) but i’ve just “stepped back” as jason would say and looked at THIS from a different prospective. and i’ve seen that the catholic church (well mine anyways) is actually quite stuck up and strict. i believe that god is where you find him and if i don’t connect with the catholic church that is not necessarily wrong. Personally, i believe more in the Baptist faith and I am considering converting soon. I lived out the chaste life for about a year now and have found it quite rewarding, but on the other hand i do not believe 100% in the whole thing, so therefore, i honestly probably won’t live this lifestyle out for the rest of my life. that doesn’t mean i’m going to go have sex all the time and turn into a sinfull person. Jason makes it seem like if you have sex, your going to have a screwed up marriage, and live in a box, and be completely sinfull and broke and lonely and go 2 hell. i don’t believe that is right. i think Jason should look at it from other angles than just his own. i am a child of God and i am not going to go to hell for not living out a chaste lifestyle. i won’t have a messed up marriage or have an unrewarding life. i am not, by any circumstances looking down on those who are living this lifestyle, but Jason must realize that it isn’t for everybody. I have had sex one time, and i agree that it was a mistake by any definition, and i am waiting until i am sure of myself and maybe that could be when i’m married. i don’t really know. but however it all pans out, i’ll take things as they come and live my life as a growing, learning, human being. i think jason in way too condescending on those not living a chaste life. those are just my thoughts on this and i’m sure there are others who feel the same and some who disagree. i’m not saying i’m right and you’re wrong. i’m saying that these beliefs aren’t for everyone.


#2

As Blaise Pascal observed, everybody wants to be happy; there are no exceptions.

If you live chastely, you lose nothing and you stand to gain everything. Live unchastely, and you risk being unhappy. Now which is the better choice?


#3

Sory, but LOLOLOLOL

So now after the passion for chastity is extinguished you start to fall back on the pass pleasure. You start questioning chastity to justify yourself. Very typical I might say.

This maybe a very cynical reply, but then again probably you need a cynical reply to know how silly your attitude is.

Thank you very much.


#4

Hey Megan :slight_smile:

I too am a catholic who is unmarried yet not a virgin. I however know that this is wrong of me. I believe the bible and the church are very clear about the evil nature of fornication. What you are describing as the reasons for not doing it are good reasons, though they are not necessarily the only result of it. However, even if they were not the result of fornication, the reason not to commit fornication is not because of the side effects to us, (which are proably more than we can know in his life), but because God says we must not.
I can be the smartest person in the world but I am still a spec of dust compared to the universe, and evenless to god. How can I possibly believe that my 30 years of life and my upbringing give me personally the ability to perceive what is right and wrong subjectively and arbitrarily (adam and eve in the garden of eden anyone?)
So rather than saying I am a child of God and can do what I want and it’ll be ok; I say I am an obedient child of God who still tries to do what my Dad tells me, even though I may fail sometimes.
Hope this puts things in a different perspective for ya :slight_smile:
In His love

Chris


#5

Last I heard Baptists expect single people to be chaste just as much as Catholics expect it. Even the once saved always saved group, if you don’t live it you are simply deemed defacto unsaved for living an openly sinful life.

I don’t believe Jason Evert is just speaking from personal experience. He is going by trends in divorce and other problems we’ve seen since the sexual revolution began. The statistics tend to favor chastity leading to longer, happier marriages. Unchastity to a series of problems throughout the person’s life even after marriage.

I think a secondary factor is if a person doesn’t have a change of heart versus if they have a change of heart after having made a mistake. But for many the first mistake leads to more mistakes and ending up in relationships with people who have a history of mistakes of their own and eventual problems. It might not always happen, but statistically speaking it is true. Example divorce rate for those who live together before marriage, if it was done as a trial marriage the rate of divorce is much higher than national average, about average if the couple absolutely intends to get married going into the living arrangement.

Anyhow, Baptists are not going to be more lenient on this issue - esp. not reformed or southern Baptists.


#6

Meg, Gods teachings are for everyone and they are objective, not subjective. They are what they are and we should follow them. There is only one true church. The Catholic Church and the baptists can’t both be correct. If you are in the wrong church then you are not recieving the fulness of the truth and recieving the full grace as God intends for you.


#7

Megzy,

You sound very young. This is the most important time of your life, and your decisions now will affect the rest of your life. I commend your acceptance thus far of living a chaste life. I know it can be extremely difficult and very little in our culture supports you. I know how annoying it is when people tell you “you’ll appreciate this when you’re older.” But making the choice for chastity now WILL pay big dividends later on when you find that right guy to build a life with, and you both know you’ve done your very best to present yourself to him in purity and trust. (End of sermon!)

But don’t look to the Baptists to cut you any slack on the chastity issue – of course, they too understand that people make mistakes but they’re as fully committed to the full living out of the Christian life in this regard as Catholics are. One big difference: When you slip and screw up your life and the lives of those who are hurt by your mistakes, there’s no confession, no word of absolution, spoken from the lips of Christ himself – nothing but your own feelings to rely on.

Can you talk to a priest or to somone you trust about your feelings? Your feelings and doubts are not uncommon. If it helps at all, you have a lot of people here tucking you into their prayers. I always remember young people who are struggling when I pray the first and fifth joyful mysteries of the Rosary. You’re in there now!

Hugs.


#8

This is what Mary told the children of Fatima in one of her appearances to them:

HELL: “More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason!” [Sins against the 6th Commandment.]

Theodora


#9

i beg to differ that you “lose nothing” by living a life of chastity. i had a talk with my friend’s mother the other day. She had waited for marriage, done everything right, and thought she was in love. Right now she is going through divorce and told me flat out that she wished she wouldn’t have waited because even though she did, things are falling apart. i understand that things happen and that a chaste lifestyle doesn’t garauntee a perfect marriage, but there are some who wish they hadn’t.

and i also think that saying the catholic church is the ONLY true church is very closed-minded. What makes you think that you’re right and everyone else is wrong?? God is where you find him and as long as you feel that conncection with your Father, why does it matter what church you are in? you know, there’s also terrorists that beleive their religion is the ONLY true one, and they’re going around killing themselves and other people! Think about it.

i wasn’t sayin i was converting to Baptist because they’d slack off on me about chastity… i just personally don’t “click” w/ the catholic church i guess (nothing against it). it’s just not for me. i’ve visited Baptist churches and discovered a more open and freindly environment and a stronger bond with God. Personally, MY catholic parish (St. Philip’s in Melbourne Kentucky), reminds me of a big brainwashed cult (sorry) and everybody’s so stuck up and unapproachable. So maybe thats just where i get my reasoning for not clicking well with the catholic church.


#10

Megzy,

Many on these boards are converts TO the Catholic Church FROM traditions like the Baptist Church. Almost none of us converted because the people were nicer.

You have a lot of issues workin’ all at once. You have odd ideas about why the Church understands herself to be “better” than other Christian Churches. You would put it more accurately if you were to say we think we’re “luckier” because we understand how Our Lord established his Church on earth and because we can be part of it 2000 years later.

If you want to explore that, you can go to the home page of Catholic Answers and check out the articles there.

Dialogue in a forum like this is much too limited. You need “face time” with people who understand where you’re coming from, have some sympathy for what you’re looking for, and who can help you grow into a full emotional and intellectual comprehension of the vast glory and richness of the Catholic faith. Talk to your priest.

Where do your parents fit into this?


#11

[quote=Megzy]i beg to differ that you “lose nothing” by living a life of chastity. i had a talk with my friend’s mother the other day. She had waited for marriage, done everything right, and thought she was in love. Right now she is going through divorce and told me flat out that she wished she wouldn’t have waited because even though she did, things are falling apart. i understand that things happen and that a chaste lifestyle doesn’t garauntee a perfect marriage, but there are some who wish they hadn’t.
[/quote]

Now, what would she have gained by not waiting? Just because she stayed a virgin and things are still falling apart does not mean that they would not have fallen apart if she did not wait. Statistics clearly prove that those who wait are much more likely to have a marriage that lasts.

and i also think that saying the catholic church is the ONLY true church is very closed-minded. What makes you think that you’re right and everyone else is wrong?? God is where you find him and as long as you feel that conncection with your Father, why does it matter what church you are in? you know, there’s also terrorists that beleive their religion is the ONLY true one, and they’re going around killing themselves and other people! Think about it.

Gods truth is not subjunctive. It is what it is and it is the same for everyone. There can only be one truth. Take for example the Eucharist, the Catholic Church believes it to be the literal body and blood of Christ. Jesus said if you do not eat his body and drink his blood you will not have everlasting life. The baptists say that it is only a remembrance of Christ. These are blatant contradictions in faith. Only one can be true, meaning that one of the two churches is teaching false doctrines and the other is teaching the truth. Now if you read 1Cor11;26-30 and John6. You can see that it is not only a memorial. You can also read the writings of Ignatius, Ireneaous, and Justin 100’s AD, who all believed it was the literal body and blood of Christ.

Just because the Muslims think they have the truth does not mean the Catholics do not have the truth. The Muslims are a realigion that was started in the 8th century.

Yes God is everywhere, but that does not mean you recieve an equal amount of truth everywhere. The budists are not recieving the same amount of truth as the Christians and the Baptists are not recieving the same amount of truth that the Catholics are.

i wasn’t sayin i was converting to Baptist because they’d slack off on me about chastity… i just personally don’t “click” w/ the catholic church i guess (nothing against it). it’s just not for me. i’ve visited Baptist churches and discovered a more open and freindly environment and a stronger bond with God. Personally, MY catholic parish (St. Philip’s in Melbourne Kentucky), reminds me of a big brainwashed cult (sorry) and everybody’s so stuck up and unapproachable. So maybe thats just where i get my reasoning for not clicking well with the catholic church.

God does not want us to choose what we want and go follow that. He wants us to choose what is right and follow that. If your parish is bad then go to another one, but that is no reason to leave the church. You will find self-righteous people in any church you go to. It is not localized to the Catholic Church.


#12

Megzy,

Before you make a decision like this you should make sure you know what you are leaving. Read Catholic apologetics. Read books by saints and read some of the Church fathers. You do not want to leave what you do not know because it may turn out to be a big mistake.


#13

Since living a life of chastity didn’t cause her divorce, it’s not an example that disproves that you lose nothing by living a life of chastity.

Maybe you can come up with a better one.

Now, either the Catholic Church is right, and those terrorists are wrong, or those terrorists are right, and the Catholic Church is wrong. While they both might be wrong, they both can’t be right.

For this reason, your statement that “God is where you find him, etc” can’t be true. If what you say is true, then those terrorists have found God in their religion, and they’re applying what you say is their connection with God by killing themselves and other people.

Moreover, terrorists “click” awfully well together. I hardly think that clicking well is the standard to finding out which religious organization is authentically true.


#14

I think it’s good that you’ve been chaste for the past year, and that you don’t want a repeat of your first time mistake.

I honestly can’t tell you that I know for certain that having sex outside of marriage will ruin your life. I know that it was not a good idea for ME. I would LOVE to be able to go back in time and do everything differently…

You probably won’t end up homeless and miserable, you’re right. There are plenty of rich, successful people who had sex before they were married. OTOH, one of the easiest ways to screw up your life is by having sex. Venereal disease is quite common even among “nice” boys and girls. Getting a reputation as a slut is still a real possibility, as unfair and hypocritical as those sorts of things tend to be. Finally, remember the primary purpose of sex: to cause pregnancy. That’s simply a biological fact. There is a secondary purpose - the social bonding/marriage effect (which is why humans can have sex even when they’re not able to concieve) but the primary purpose of sex is to get pregnant.

You have to bend over backwards to avoid getting pregnant. Some forms of birth control can cause an early abortion. Some of them just aren’t very effective. And, the fact is that people who use birth control still end up pregnant all the time.

If you’re at least married and committed, you can deal with the responsibility of this result.

Finally, it’s very, very hard to judge when it’s actually a good idea to have sex. It’s a very easy thing to regret (“I can’t BELIEVE I let him see me naked!”) for all sorts of reasons… and the more that sort of thing happens, the harder it can be to remember what is supposed to be so special about sex, anyway.

I have deliberately left all Catholic doctrine, etc, out of this reply so that you will have something to think about in spite of your doubts about the faith. I hear a lot of hysterical hyperbole (“Oh! It will DESTROY YOUR SOUL AND YOU’LL BE WRETCHED FOREVER!!!”) that, frankly, just ends up sounding sorta silly - like the movie “Reefer Madness.”

As for how you feel about the Church, try to separate that from your feelings about sex. Focus on the teachings about Christ and salvation and don’t let your desire to fit in more with the secular world cloud your mind.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.