Check our Press Release

azcentral.com/news//articles/0627latin27.html

Encouraging for those who love the TLM, not for reasons of nostalgia, but for reasons of faith…

“Our” press release? Who are “you”?

This looks like a simple newspaper article. (One that’s quite biased toward the pro-TLM point of view, with no balanced point of view.)

[quote=rcn]“Our” press release? Who are “you”?

This looks like a simple newspaper article. (One that’s quite biased toward the pro-TLM point of view, with no balanced point of view.)
[/quote]

Having spent a lot of time with Haugen/Haas music, I thought it was a cute article…

[quote=Catholic Heart]azcentral.com/news//articles/0627latin27.html

Encouraging for those who love the TLM, not for reasons of nostalgia, but for reasons of faith…
[/quote]

I am troubled by your use of the words “but for reasons of faith”,can you explain to me what you mean by that.

[quote=Catholic Heart]azcentral.com/news//articles/0627latin27.html

Encouraging for those who love the TLM, not for reasons of nostalgia, but for reasons of faith…
[/quote]

Geez look at the ages of these people from the article…
"“This has everything to do with a deeper sense of reverence befitting God,” said Steve Skojec, 27, of Surprise, who drives 40 miles each Sunday to and from the service. “It has nothing to do with nostalgia, but instead, an immediate recognition of its appeal.”

Mike Malone, 49, of Phoenix, who with his wife, Ann, has helped train altar boys for the service, said the language is not the main draw, either.

"It is not about the Latin," he said. "It is about the ritual, the sense of the sacred, the mystery of the sacrifice."

Bill Haley, 28, said for him, the Latin provides a link to the church's heritage, to a rite that is centuries old. 

“Today’s culture is so rootless and adrift,” Haley said. “This is something to anchor us to a sense of timeless worship of God rather than of man.”

David Pursley, 18, who just graduated from Brophy College Preparatory, and his brother Steven, 16, who will be a junior there next year, trained as alter boys for the Latin Mass.

"It's easier to stay focused," said David, who knew no Latin before his training.

Steven said he likes having the priest face away from the congregation.

"It puts the focus on God, rather than on the people," he said.

Another young member of the congregation, Rachel MacGillivray, 15, said she was drawn by the language, which she is taking at Veritas Preparatory Academy.

At first she found the service confusing and hard to follow, but now has persuaded her parents to attend also."

God Bless them. May all who want to experience the TLM get their chance.

[quote=rcn]“Our” press release? Who are “you”?

This looks like a simple newspaper article. (One that’s quite biased toward the pro-TLM point of view, with no balanced point of view.)
[/quote]

Balanced point of view??? What are you talking about???

The article concerns the implementation of the Traditional Latin Mass at a certain location in Phoenix. It did not concern the ongoing dialogue over the indult or anything else. It explained what the Mass was, where it was being celebrated, why the people preferred it and the possibility of a parish devoted to the Traditional Mass being set up. It did not concern anything else except relative sizes of the possible parish to other parishes in Phoenix.

What balance exactly are you looking for??? :confused:

Good for you guys.

Speaking of Phoenix, I watched the welcoming Mass for the Poor Clares (Mother Angelica’s very traditional nuns) to that diocese the other night. After seeing that “Cathedral” and watching that Mass, it’s clear that the sisters and their prayers are much needed there.

I’ve been to two Tridentine Rite Masses. Both were hard to follow because the priests didn’t know very well what they were doing. In one of the Masses, the priest didn’t even elevate the host and chalice. The latin pronounciation was painful to the ear, too.

I think I’ll stick to the parish that I found that does the Pauline Mass reverently and has gregorian chant.

[quote=LCMS_No_More]I’ve been to two Tridentine Rite Masses. Both were hard to follow because the priests didn’t know very well what they were doing. In one of the Masses, the priest didn’t even elevate the host and chalice. The latin pronounciation was painful to the ear, too.

I think I’ll stick to the parish that I found that does the Pauline Mass reverently and has gregorian chant.
[/quote]

That is very, very strange. In the Traditional Latin Mass there are actually two elevations, the major and the minor. For the Priest to miss both of them is unheard of in a real Traditional Latin Mass. Actually the major elevation is one of the few things about the Traditional Mass that even non-Catholics recognize as a part of the Mass. Could I ask which organization was responsible for the Mass? Were they authorized Diocesan Indult Masses, or some other group that was either schismatic or sedevecantist in nature? I have heard that in some diocess the local bishops have required that the indult masses incorporate aspects from later revisions of the mass which is specifically not allowed under the indult. It is also possible that if the mass was given by a schismatic group it could have had errors although not of the gravity that you are speaking of. SSPX and other groups normally adhere very closely to the rubrics, and are often more faithful to them then are the indult masses…

That being said I think there are two things that could have happened, neither of which is very palatable.

  1. The Bishop assigned a new or inexperienced priest who did not know how to properly say the Mass either in ignorance or indifference OR he conciously did it in an attempt to destroy confidence in the Mass, such as has been done to you. There are certain Bishops across the country who have made it crystal clear that they do not want or support having the Traditional Latin Mass in their Dioceses
    .
  2. You stumbled into a group that is based in Mexico, which is called the cult of la santissma muerte. They claim to be dedicated to the preservation of the Traditional Latin Mass and received permission under the indult to celebrate masses in Mexico. In reality they practice a religion in which the major player is la santissma muerte, a skeleton in a robe holding a scythe. They have a huge following in Mexico and along the southwest border. They advertise their masses as being either Traditional or Tridentine. They have a least two chapels in the Los Angeles area. One of their trademarks is a change in how the Eucharist is consecrated… This group is nominally Catholic as it is closer to spirit and saint worship than true Catholicism and actually resembles Santeria and Voodoo in nature.

I pray that God blesses you and guides you on your journey in faith.

[quote=Scotty PGH]Good for you guys.

Speaking of Phoenix, I watched the welcoming Mass for the Poor Clares (Mother Angelica’s very traditional nuns) to that diocese the other night. After seeing that “Cathedral” and watching that Mass, it’s clear that the sisters and their prayers are much needed there.
[/quote]

Other than you not liking the way the Cathedral looks can you please point out what was in error with the CAthedral and/or the Mass?

Personnally I did not care for the chior but I am not into chiors. I also did not care for the female altar servers. But those two things are personal preferences and besides those I though the Mass was fine.

I was disappointed that I did not see any Carmelites in attendance because they have a house in Phoenix and have a High School there.

[quote=ByzCath]Other than you not liking the way the Cathedral looks can you please point out what was in error with the CAthedral and/or the Mass?

Personnally I did not care for the chior but I am not into chiors. I also did not care for the female altar servers. But those two things are personal preferences and besides those I though the Mass was fine.

I was disappointed that I did not see any Carmelites in attendance because they have a house in Phoenix and have a High School there.
[/quote]

I will note that I did not used the word “error.” The “way the Cathedral looks” is precisely what I was referring to. I believe you can tell a lot about a congregation by looking at their Church and the way they worship.

Generally speaking, the place looks more like a social hall than a Bishop’s Seat.

I didn’t like how the Bishop sat elevated directly behind the altar, so when the readers bowed (presumably to the altar), it looked like they were bowing to him.

Where was the tabernacle?

There was very little religious imagery visible. The whole place had a very unassuming look and feel to it. It certainly did not raise one’s senses to Heaven, as any Church (let alone a Cathedral) should.

There was no crucifix behind the altar, but rather some neo-modernist artictic rendering. I believe I spotted a very slender cross on a stand, off to the side of the altar.

I can’t stand the look of those circular altar areas.

The altar area was carpeted.

Like you, I didn’t care for the choir (never do). The lead singer (whatever they’re called) was painful to listen to.

I’m not into the dramatic performance, lay-people readings.

What’s with all the trees and other shrubbery all over the place?

These were just a few of the things that led me to an overall opinion that these devout sisters and their prayers will certainly be put to good use in that diocese.

[quote=Scotty PGH]I will note that I did not used the word “error.” The “way the Cathedral looks” is precisely what I was referring to. I believe you can tell a lot about a congregation by looking at their Church and the way they worship.

Generally speaking, the place looks more like a social hall than a Bishop’s Seat.

I didn’t like how the Bishop sat elevated directly behind the altar, so when the readers bowed (presumably to the altar), it looked like they were bowing to him.

[/quote]

This struck me as odd too, but with the great number of concelebrating clergy, I could understand the placement of the Bishops Throne being where it was.

Where was the tabernacle?

I saw it, it was right to the right of the sacuntary.

There was very little religious imagery visible. The whole place had a very unassuming look and feel to it. It certainly did not raise one’s senses to Heaven, as any Church (let alone a Cathedral) should.

True, but then you must remember the limitations of the media, in this case Television. It might look different if you were acutally there.

There was no crucifix behind the altar, but rather some neo-modernist artictic rendering. I believe I spotted a very slender cross on a stand, off to the side of the altar.

I can’t stand the look of those circular altar areas.

The altar area was carpeted.

Like you, I didn’t care for the choir (never do). The lead singer (whatever they’re called) was painful to listen to.

I’m not into the dramatic performance, lay-people readings.

What’s with all the trees and other shrubbery all over the place?

These are personal things, which I do agree with you on but they say nothing about how the congregation is or prays.

Which I am sure you are aware of.

These were just a few of the things that led me to an overall opinion that these devout sisters and their prayers will certainly be put to good use in that diocese.

I just do not think comments like this serve any purpose except to tare down others practices that are different than our own.

I wonder, was this Cathedral built by the current Bishop?

[quote=Scotty PGH]Speaking of Phoenix, I watched the welcoming Mass for the Poor Clares (Mother Angelica’s very traditional nuns) to that diocese the other night. After seeing that “Cathedral” and watching that Mass, it’s clear that the sisters and their prayers are much needed there.
[/quote]

OK, I’ll bite again. You obviously had a problem with that mass. What was it?

I live in Phoenix. The “Cathedral” church is the residence of our new bishop. Who is doing a good job of cleaning up the mess his predecessor made. If you’re criticizing the appearance of the church, this ain’t Pittsburgh, we don’t have any huge Gothic-style cathedrals. They just don’t build 'em that way any more, and aren’t likely to either.

And as for the Mass, everything was straight in line with the rubrics. This bishop would not tolerate anything less.

So again… exactly what was your problem?

Edited: OK, I’ve seen your list of “complaints”. I wish I could speak for all the Catholics of my diocese, but I’ll only speak for myself in telling you “thanks for nothing”.

[quote=ByzCath]I wonder, was this Cathedral built by the current Bishop?
[/quote]

The current bishop has been here just over a year. I’m not sure if any new parishes have opened in that time - perhaps one in the suburbs. As this area continues to explode in population, we desperately need new parishes - however we had no priests ordained last year, only one this year, and I think at most two next year.

The Cathedral you saw on TV opened in 1966 according to the parish web site simonjude.org/ssjparishnew/our-mission.htm .

[quote=palmas85]Balanced point of view??? What are you talking about???
What balance exactly are you looking for??? :confused:
[/quote]

Maybe I have been reading these forums too much, but when I read glowing remarks about the TLM such as the article contained, I also look for a disclaimer that there are plenty of non-TLM churches which are perfectly orthodox, devout, etc.

The TLM has no monopoly on reverence, despite the underlying tone of many of the comments.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.