China, Indonesia pressure Australia over spy row


#1

China & Indonesia allege that the Aussies are complicit with American spying now

channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/china-indonesia-pressure/870922.html


#2

John Kerry: Some NSA spying went too far bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24768717

                   From the article

"We have actually prevented airplanes from going down, buildings from being blown up, and people from being assassinated because we've been able to learn ahead of time of the plans," Mr Kerry told a conference in London via video link.

              So this is why they spied on Angela Merkel and others ?

#3

We hire guys to spy, give them huge budgets to spy with, and act surprised when they spy.

Ironic.


#4

Of course we are complicit in American spying. Every Aussie knows that the joint base at Pine Gap run by the yanks in combination with our Signals directorate runs extensive electronic monitoring across Asia. Our ASIS operatives are active in every embassy as are agents from every country we host in their embassies. This opportunistic and tendentious outrage by the press should be seen for what it is. Fellow travellers from the Press trying for a free kick against the West. Note our pollies don't comment and certainly don't apologize for supporting our friends. We know America spies on us as well, but our secrets really can only be found in the recipe for Lamingtons (which our Kiwi cousins also claim).
Indonesia is making a token complaint for internal consumption but nothing will come of it. Don't worry, still loyal allies to the Yanks.


#5

This is disingenuous, to say the least.

Quote from NIST at nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtctowers.cfm :

22. Did the NIST investigation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues?

NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

Fortunately there have been independent scientists who tested for thermitic residues, and they found a technologically super advanced, nano composite material, a nano thermite:

Quote from benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCPJ.pdf :

**Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade
Center Catastrophe
**

Folks, check out figures 8 and 9, on page 15 of the pdf version of the paper linked above. What you will see is a modern technological marvel, a nano composite material, nano thermite, containing tiny aluminum hexagons with a thickness of 40 nanometers, which is more than 100 times thinner than a human hair (a human hair is typically 5-6 micrometers thick), or less than 200 atoms thick (the diameter of an aluminum atom is 0.236 nanometer, or 2.36 Angstrom). And the diameter of these hexagons is also 5-6 times smaller than a human hair, at about 1000 nanometers.

You know who can prepare such aluminum nano particles?

A bunch of terrorists with box cutters, in a cave in Afghanistan, of course… :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well, we know that the military is interested in nano thermites and nano aluminum powders, for incendiary, explosive, and rocket propulsion purposes. See for example:

dl.begellhouse.com/journals/17bbb47e377ce023,0aab36df4049e475,34f1abb213e5b906.html - quote:

International Journal of Energetic Materials and Chemical Propulsion

HIGH-REACTIVITY ALUMINUM POWDERS

ABSTRACT
Aluminum powders are used in propellant, pyrotechnic, and explosive formulations, as well as in combustion systems, to increase energy and energy density.

There are probably less than a handful of institutions and laboratories on the face of planet Earth, with the ability to prepare hexagon-shaped aluminum particles with a diameter of 1000 nanometer, and less then 200 atoms thick or 40 nanometers thick.

If our government wanted to find who prepared these aluminum nano particles, they could probably find them. And I bet these nano particles were not prepared in a cave in Afghanistan…

Now, for the stonewalling of NIST on the issue of thermite, incendiary, and explosive materials, their dereliction of duty to test for such residue (NFPA code 921 calls for such testing!!!), see here:

benthamscience.com/open/tociej/articles/V002/35TOCIEJ.pdf

**Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the
World Trade Center Destruction **

**14. Search for Explosive or Thermite Residues **

From a NIST FAQ: [Question: ] “Did the NIST investi-
gation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought
down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for ex-
plosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite
and sulfur (called thermate) “slices through steel like a hot
knife through butter.” [Answer: ] NIST did not test for the
residue of these compounds in the steel” [3].

We agree; there is no evidence that NIST tested for resi-
dues of thermite or explosives. This is another remarkable
admission. Probing for residues from pyrotechnic materials
including thermite in particular, is specified in fire and ex-
plosion investigations by the NFPA 921 code:

Unusual residues might remain from the initial
fuel. Those residues could arise from thermite,
magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials [26].

Traces of thermite in residues (solidified slag, dust, etc.)
would tell us a great deal about the crime and the cause of
thousands of injuries and deaths. This is standard procedure
for fire and explosion investigations. Perhaps NIST will ex-
plain why they have not looked for these residues? The code
specifies that fire-scene investigators must be prepared to
justify an exclusion [26].

NIST has been asked about this important issue recently,
by investigative reporter Jennifer Abel:

Abel: "…what about that letter where NIST said it
didn’t look for evidence of explosives?” Neuman
[spokesperson at NIST, listed on the WTC report]:
"Right, because there was no evidence of that."
Abel: But how can you know there’s no evidence if
you don’t look for it first?
Neuman: "If you’re
looking for something that isn’t there, you’re wast-
ing your time… and the taxpayers’ money.” [27].

The evident evasiveness of this answer might be humor-
ous if not for the fact that NIST’s approach here affects the
lives of so many innocent people. We do not think that look-
ing for thermite or other residues specified in the NFPA 921
code is “wasting your time.” We may be able to help out
here as well, for we have looked for such residues in the
WTC remains using state-of-the-art analytical methods, es-
pecially in the voluminous toxic dust that was produced as
the buildings fell and killed thousands of people, and the
evidence for thermite use is mounting. [13, 22]


#6

So, we are spying now on every country, Germany, Brazil, China, Indonesia, the Vatican, supposedly to find the “terrorists”, but we refuse to find out where that nano composite (nano thermite) is coming from, in the rubble of the WTC catastrophe?

I say stop the WAR ON PRIVACY of innocent people, and start looking for the real terrorists.

Edit: here’s also a youtube video of a lecture given by Professor Niels Harrit, from the Department of Chemistry at the University of Copenhagen, regarding the nano thermite issue - see youtube.com/watch?v=N6kJ4EpmMw0

Prof. Dr. Niels Harrit about nanothermite on 9/11

This will not go away. The 9/11 truth movement is made up of scientists and engineers, and they will keep at it until they will discover the truth. When the main stream media is mocking these reputable professionals, the media will only manage to misinform those people who are not putting in the intellectual effort to find the truth. Those who do put in the effort, will not be phased by the media.


#7

I’ll say it again. We’re suppose to be desperately fighting a War On Terror, and yet we’re close friends with Saudi Arabia, and to me at least, that’s like a mayor vowing to clean up crime while he’s good buddies with the local Mafia Don.


#8

Maybe this "war on terror" is the boogey man they (the crooks who control politics and the military-industrial complex) needed to invent, after the cold war was over. They surely got a lot of mileage out of it.

We had wars, which meant profits for the military-industrial complex. Internationally, the crooks who are paid by multinational corporations are using spying and staged military coups to control foreign countries (see how we are continuing to mess with Latin America). At home, they transformed the USA into a monitored society, perhaps worse than Eastern Germany under the Stasi. The communist countries didn't have the technical capabilities to monitor and record everybody's telephone conversations.


#9

[quote="OurLadyPray4US, post:8, topic:343832"]
Maybe this "war on terror" is the boogey man they (the crooks who control politics and the military-industrial complex) needed to invent, after the cold war was over. They surely got a lot of mileage out of it.

We had wars, which meant profits for the military-industrial complex. Internationally, the crooks who are paid by multinational corporations are using spying and staged military coups to control foreign countries (see how we are continuing to mess with Latin America). At home, they transformed the USA into a monitored society, perhaps worse than Eastern Germany under the Stasi. The communist countries didn't have the technical capabilities to monitor and record everybody's telephone conversations.

[/quote]

I say let's turn it around on them.

We'll find some tech savvy men and women, and spy on them (our government)! :D

I have a vivid imagination, but even with that, not even I can imagine what we would find out.


#10

Also the “Good Al Qaeda” was invented and controlled by the CIA. Then, in 2001, it became the “Bad Al Qaeda” - and now in 2013, it has become the “Good Al Qaeda” again. And our hero military are the bad guys, because they don’t want to fight side-by-side with the Good Al Qaeda in Syria, and they don’t want to give air support to the Good Al Qaeda.

Meanwhile, UBL clearly stated in September 2001, twice, that he didn’t do 9/11. Many believe that the real UBL, a thin left-handed guy weighing 160 lbs, was dead by the end of 2001. Ever since, we have been seeing these videos parading “fatty bin Laden”, a right-handed guy, 100 pounds heavier than the real UBL, putting on a poor show for the continued “entertainment” of the American public.

Edit: in May 2011, we “killed bin Laden”. Three months later, in August 2011, a Chinook helicopter went down, killing 22 members of the Navy Seal Team 6, who “killed bin Laden”. A curious thing. The people who “killed bin Laden” are dead.


#11

[quote="Lormar, post:9, topic:343832"]
I say let's turn it around on them.

We'll find some tech savvy men and women, and spy on them (our government)! :D

I have a vivid imagination, but even with that, not even I can imagine what we would find out.

[/quote]

Oh boy :ouch:

what we would find out...


#12

How about I just save everyone some time and worry and lay it out there:

If someone is doing something, the government is watching.
If a nation is doing something, the government is watching.
If for whatever reason the government can't watch, they are doing everything they can to fix that "problem".
Other countries are spying on individuals.
Other countries are spying on other countries.
Countries team up to spy knowing full well that they are also spying on each other.
Your government is spying on you.
Other governments are spying on you.
When someone gets caught spying there is a faux moral outrage, but like Rubio said, it is because that's what their constituents want. The leaders are already fully aware of this and accept spying as a part of politics.

There has always been spying, though the technology hasn't always been good.
There will always be spying, and the technology will only get better.

Now the good news! If you have the time and inclination to discuss this on CAF, chances are that you are not interesting enough for the government to care what you do.


#13

The unit took part in the death of Bin Laden. That doesn’t equate to the members of that unit who died in the August attack took part in the operation against Bin Laden." I won’t even go into the silliness involved in thinking that the operation against Bin Laden could be accomplished with just 22 people.

The only place SOFs never lose anyone to the bad guy is in the movies.


#14

Bunch of amateurs. To quote any Sister who has walked back into her suddenly very quiet and very well behaved classroom- “Jesus knows what you did.”:smiley:


#15

[quote="oldcatholicguy, post:14, topic:343832"]
Bunch of amateurs. To quote any Sister who has walked back into her suddenly very quiet and very well behaved classroom- "Jesus knows what you did.":D

[/quote]

I was reminded of my mother in a similar way. "I have eyes in the back of my head, all mom's do". You know, to this day, I think I still believe her.


#16

[quote="fischerb, post:1, topic:343832"]
China & Indonesia allege that the Aussies are complicit with American spying now

channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/china-indonesia-pressure/870922.html

[/quote]

I always find these accusations of spying hypocritical in the extreme. The Indonesias and Chinese spy on Australia, the US spies on Australia and everyone else in the sense of intelligence gathering,the Russians spy on everyone as far as they can, the British spy on everyone, the Israelis spy on everyone, China spies on the US and hacks into US databases etc. etc.

But as soon as** someone else **gets caught, we have the spectacle of self-righteous hand-wringing, with the poor old diplomats being called in to face the music on behalf of their cloak and dagger men.

The world is such a hypocritical place. Politics is a necessary evil, and that includes intelligence gathering, but why anyone would want to put their faith in politics is beyond me.


#17

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