The RCC does not believe that Jesus Christ took upon Himself our sins on the Cross as the Sin-Bearer.
The RCC does not believe that Christ paid the penalty for those sins He bore upon Himself as the Substitute for us, so that He could redeem us.
The Scripture that I will use to define Jesus Christ as the Sin-Bearer can be found in (1 Peter 2:24-25):
“Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
Please explain exactly how you understand (1 Peter 2:24-25), if you do not accept that Jesus Christ is our Sin-Bearer Redeemer?
I believe that you must believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ as our Substitute Sin-Bearer Redeemer, if you are to be saved. There is no other way to salvation.
I have heard many different misunderstood Catholic belief’s from non catholics and Protestants alike, but yours today takes the cake.
What makes you think Catholics dont believe Jesus took upon himself our humanity and nailed our sins to the Cross?
That scripture you quoted here, The Catholic Church canonized it to be inspired of God. Why would you think Catholics believe contrary to a letter she placed in the New Testament bible?
You will find the Proclamation of Jesus Death until he comes in every Catholic Church, just by the hanging Crucifix itself speaks volumes against your false accusation.
In our liturgy of the Mass, we recite the thrice Holy, along with the “lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world” from antiquity.
Have you ever attended a Roman Catholic Church Mass? I would recommend that you do, and take your bible with you, because from the procession to the ending the Word of God comes to life and presents himself truly body and blood to all those God has called unto himself.
I have to pause here, less I record a book here, refuting your false claim. I will close with this: IF the Catholic church had not given you the Gospels, in what would you lay your claim of truth, if you did not have the Gospels? for the Catholic church came before the New Testament was put together by the Catholic church herself.
What makes you think we don’t? Why is there a need for Jesus to be crucified? As mentioned above, this the most basic of dogma. The Letter to the Hebrews is all about it.
From the Nicene Creed,
" for us men and for our salvation descended from Heaven; and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary and became man. He was also crucified for us, suffered under Pontius Pilate and was buried"
Perhaps your problem is that the Catholic Church teaches that there must be a response from man to this redemptive act in order for us to apply the satisfaction and merits gained by the Cross in our lives. You would say, “Works based salvation!! You deny the efficacy of Christ’s sacrifice!” This would be wrong. In fact, you yourself admit that one must “do something”
I believe that you must believe
. Sounds like a work to me.
This is the Church’s position from the Catechism:
619 “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures” (I Cor 15:3).
620 Our salvation flows from God’s initiative of love for us, because “he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins” (I Jn 4:10). “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself” (2 Cor 5:19).
621 Jesus freely offered himself for our salvation. Beforehand, during the Last Supper, he both symbolized this offering and made it really present: “This is my body which is given for you” (Lk 22:19).
622 The redemption won by Christ consists in this, that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mt 20:28), that is, he “loved [his own] to the end” (Jn 13:1), so that they might be “ransomed from the futile ways inherited from [their] fathers” (I Pt 1:18).
623 By his loving obedience to the Father, “unto death, even death on a cross” (Phil 2:8), Jesus fulfills the atoning mission (cf. Is 53:10) of the suffering Servant, who will “make many righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities” (Is 53:11; cf. Rom 5:19).
And I like this little quote in the Catechism as well:
Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven.
Do you (and the RCC) really believe that Jesus Christ died on the Cross as our Sin-Bearer?
I am talking about the Gospel of Jesus Christ having a believer’s sin imputed ( layed in blame) upon Christ’s own body during the one Sacrifice of the Cross. The Gospel goes further to say that Christ then received the penalty for that sin, which a believing sinner deserved. Christ took a believing sinner’s deserved place on the Cross, as our Substitute Redeemer (penalty-Payer).
Ugh…sorry, that second sentence makes no sense.:rolleyes: What it was supposed to convey is that “If we didn’t believe…then why was there a need…” Sorry if I confused anyone. Poor wording along with me adding and deleting parts of my post made that one. I decided not to edit since there was already a reply. I don’t want to be one of those that goes back and edits after there have been a few replies. Sorry:blush:
That’s some sound advice. I find it a lot less frustrating when someone actually knows what the other believes and simply disagrees with them, rather than someone who attacks what they think the other believes.
I’m curious though as to WHY someone would think that.
The Catholic Church has been teaching exactly that for almost 2,000 years.
“For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man’s obedience many will be made righteous.” By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who “makes himself an offering for sin”, when “he bore the sin of many”, and who “shall make many to be accounted righteous”, for “he shall bear their iniquities”. Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.
In case you’re wondering what the Catechism is, it’s an official publication of the Church that summarizes Church teaching. It’s not an infallible document, but it’s pretty authoritative, and it’s stuffed full of footnotes that can help you find out why a particular statement is in it. But the direct point right now is that, if you want to know what the Church teaches, that’s a good place to start. The full Catechism begins here.
I got my understanding from reading what Catholics on this forum believe about “Penal Substitution”.
I would like to get a clear explanation from some Catholics about exactly how Jesus Christ was the Sin-Bearer during His Sacrifice on the Cross. They seem to want to be indirect in their answers, which indicates that they might not know or believe that Jesus was a believing sinner’s Substitute Redeemer that paid the full sin-penalty for those given by God to believe in Christ’s Sacrificial Work of Redemption, according to the Gospel.
I can’t stand it when someone posts, “I heard a Lutheran say…”, and what that Lutheran said is just plain wrong, and reflects poor catechesis. So, yeah, I understand, and that’s why I only listen to some Catholics here, and look for links to authentic Catholic sites.
Perhaps in the form of a question then:
DoesThe RCC -]does not /-]believe that Jesus Christ took upon Himself our sins on the Cross as the Sin-Bearer. ? Does The RCC -]does not /-]believe that Christ paid the penalty for those sins He bore upon Himself as the Substitute for us, so that He could redeem us. ?
Could some of the misunderstanding be related to the concept of sin itself !
Man’s first and persistent sin - is it not all around the issue of trust !
Being able to trust that God is a Good Father …
Our Lord and Bl.Mother fully and perfectly showed us The Way of trust , being able to trust that in the midst of hatred and pain , The Father’s love is still there for us so that we too can follow Him in His ways , trusting and with peace !
Now , if we do have such trust in the depth of our hearts , to its fullest extent , this world would be a world of Catholic saints from sea to shining sea !
Yet not so !
We offer up the trust and its merits of our Lord in front of The Father , in place of our own pitiful trust or even wicked ness and always hoping that we are on The Way …
May The Holy Spirit of covenantal trust enlighten our hearts to the fulness of His truth and His will !
QUOTE: I would like to get a clear explanation from some Catholics about exactly how Jesus Christ was the Sin-Bearer during His Sacrifice on the Cross. They seem to want to be indirect in their answers, which indicates that they might not know or believe that Jesus was a believing sinner’s Substitute Redeemer that paid the full sin-penalty for those given by God to believe in Christ’s Sacrificial Work of Redemption, according to the Gospel.
It seems we understand your question. We answer it. We give you what you’re looking for, regardless of whether you agree with us or not. Then, for some crazy reason, you ask the question again!
Catholics know Jesus Christ is THE REDEEMER. He was sinless and paid for our sins. He is “The Lamb of God Who Takes Away the Sins of the World.” He is the Sin Bearer.
I’m a practicing Catholic and this is what I believe, every day, with every ounce of my being, and I know I stand with all the popes in believing this.
Imputation is not Catholic teaching - the same doctrinal result is attained by other means, such as emphasising the solidarity of Jesus with all mankind. Emphasis on His Messianic Kingship can do this too.
Can anything be added to His work ? Of course not
A danger I think I see is that we may be trying to recommend ourselves to God by emphasising how orthodox or how Biblical we are. But a Gospel of Grace ignores that.