Christ Did Not Start Catholicism---HELP


#1

Please give me your input on this matter.
Our Deacon stated at an meeting sometime back that Christ only founded christianity. and not the catholic church. I do not agree with him. How do I go about telling him how I feel?


#2

This is what the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council teaches about that:

“This Sacred Council, following closely in the footsteps of the First Vatican Council, with that Council teaches and declares that Jesus Christ, the eternal Shepherd, established His holy Church…” (*LG *18).
What is this Church?
“This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him…” (*LG *8).This goes back all the way to the first century, when Jesus said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18).


#3

If your Deacon said this, he must be totally ignorant of the history of the Early Church. If he meant it took a while before it was called the “Catholic” church, he was quite correct. If one follows the story from Jesus’s commission to the apostles to go out to all nations teach them what I have told you and baptize them in the name of the Father… There is no doubt Jesus meant to found a church and that he meant it to endure until the end of time. It is probably not his fault, but is the result of one of the deconstructionists that taught him.


#4

[quote=rwoehmke]If your Deacon said this, he must be totally ignorant of the history of the Early Church. If he meant it took a while before it was called the “Catholic” church, he was quite correct. If one follows the story from Jesus’s commission to the apostles to go out to all nations teach them what I have told you and baptize them in the name of the Father… There is no doubt Jesus meant to found a church and that he meant it to endure until the end of time. It is probably not his fault, but is the result of one of the deconstructionists that taught him.
[/quote]

If a deacon said this, he shouldn’t be a deacon. On of the basic responsibilities of a deacon is to spread the Gospel, a task to which the Church is intimately bound. If this is truely the case, said deacon may need some “re-education”.


#5

What else does he have to say about things Catholic?


#6

Maybe we should ask the deacon what he really meant by that statement. Perhaps he was only saying that Jesus did not at first call the Church as the “Catholic” Church when He founded it. That is quite different from saying that He didn’t “found” the Catholic Church at all.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#7

Ignatius would disagree with him when he said, in about 100AD.

Writing to the Smyrnians

**CHAP. VIII.–LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.
**[size=2]
See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution(17) of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper(18) Eucharist, which is[administered] either
See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper(18) Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic[/size] Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.(2) even as where Christ is, there does all the heavenly host stand by, waiting upon Him as the Chief Captain of the Lord’s might, and the Governor of every intelligent nature. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize, or to offer, or to present sacrifice, or to celebrate a love-feast.(1) But that which seems good to him, is also well-pleasing to God, that everything ye do may be secure and valid.

The twenty one councils of the church would disagree every time they anathametized someone.

The Catechism would disagree when it says that no one outside the church will be saved.

The council of Trent is pretty clear when it speaks of there being no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

The Church would not teach these things if it was not the church that Christ established.

The Nicene creed which was written in the first few councils of the church says “We believe in one, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.”

Here is a link to the part of the Catechism dealing with ths part of the Creed.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

What apostolic means is that the church can trace its bishops back to the apostles. The Catholic Church can do that.


#8

Great reply, Vincent.

Here is something I keep ready in my files:

Where did the word CATHOLIC originate? From the Greek word Katholikos, which was later Latinized into Catholicus.

What is the meaning of the word?
It means ‘Universal’, which in itself means, ‘of or relating to, or affecting the entire world and ALL peoples therein’. It means, ALL encompassing, comprehensibly broad, general, and containing** ALL** that is neccessary. In summation, it means ALL people in ALL places, having ALL that is necessary, and for ALL time.

Is it in the Bible?

Yes it is. It is in Matthew 28:19-20, “Go, therefore and make disciples of ALL nations…teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you; And behold, I am with you ALL days, even unto the consummation of the world.” That is a statement of Universality, Katholicos, Catholicus, Catholic.

Some may claim that the word ‘Catholic’ did not come into use for hundreds of years after Jesus Christ founded His Church.

Not true. The first recorded use of the word that I could find, is in St. Ignatius of Antioch’s letter to the Smyrneans, paragraph 8, of 106 A.D., “Where the Bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Undoubtedly the word was in use before the time of this writing.

Here’s what you do Romie. Paste into Word and print what you need from here, especially Vincent’s reply. The following posts gives the proper protocol for reporting the deacon (or priest, if that be the case) to the bishop.


#9

Step 1:
It is very easy for someone to misinterpret their priest (or deacon) or in some other way not understand what the priest or deacon did or said.

Thus, unless the situation is one of sexual abuse or some other matter like that where a person needs to go directly to the bishops, the first step is to confront the priest or deacon.

One needs to be prepared with documentation and with a loving heart. It is important to give the benefit of the doubt to the priest at the beginning. Ask him, for example, “Father, last Sunday in your homily I thought you said something to the effect of ____________. Did I hear you correctly?”

Then when the Priest answers and confirms that you heard correctly, ask*, “Father, thank you for confirming that. I guess my question then is how does your statement fit into Church teaching?” The Catechism says ____________.*

Do not get emotional; stay business-like. Do not be accusatory rather act more like a journalists interviewing someone. If the priest did do or say what one thinks they did or say, then the goal is to gather as much evidence from the priest’s own mouth to support the fact that the priest is doing something contrary to Church teaching.

Thus this first encounter is to confirm whether or not the Priest really did say and mean, or do, something improper. If he didn’t do or say anything improper, then this step clears up the misunderstanding. Otherwise, this step is a gathering of information; not a session of accusation.

Step 2:
Now with solid evidence in hand – the priest own words; and the documentation from the Church – one can go the next step if the priest will not correct his mistake.(bring a silent witness if possible-kepha)

Write a letter (co-signed by the witness, possible) to the bishop marked CONFIDENTIAL. Explain what you witnessed in business-like and journalistic-like language and tone. Describe the meeting with the Priest and report as accurately as possible what the priest said. Suggest to the bishop that something is wrong since what the priest as done or said does not seem to jive with Church teaching, AS YOU UNDERSTAND the catechism, or whatever document.

At this point, your duty has been met for the most part.

Step 3:
If the situation is one of grave concern, such as an issue of heresy, schism, major scandal, or otherwise something that could gravely harm the Faithful or the Church, then you may consider writing a letter to the Vatican, to the appropriate dicastery that handles situations of the type in question.

Throughout this process one should be in prayer for the priest and the bishop.

Depending on the situation, once you go to the bishop or the Holy See, then your duty is done. It is up to the competent authority to handle the situation or not as they see fit.

For us, however, we should continue to practice our Faith the way it should be practiced, with no bitterness, but with prayer for the situation in question.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary
saint-mike.org/QA/FS/ViewAnswer.asp?QID=123
posted with permission from the author

kepha1


#10

[quote=Romie]Please give me your input on this matter.
Our Deacon stated at an meeting sometime back that Christ only founded christianity. and not the catholic church. I do not agree with him. How do I go about telling him how I feel?
[/quote]

Actually, Christianity is the Catholic Church. To prove that,
you could also ask him what Christianity taught in the first 300 years about the Eucharist? All Christian writers taught it was the actually body and blood of Jesus Christ.

Since Jesus founded His Church upon Peter and the apostles, you could also ask him if he knows of any successor of any apostle who was NOT a bishop of the Catholic Church.

Also, ask him who the successor of Peter was.


#11

:mad:

YOU’RE FIRED!

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :yup: :yup: :clapping: :cool: Thank you thank you. I’ll be here all week ladies and gentlemen!


#12

The way it was explained to me was that the term catholic meant the universal church of Jesus Christ. Prior to Luther there was no reason to “name” the Church. The followers were Christian. With the Reformation there arose a need to distance the reformers from the “Catholic” Church of Rome and thus began the practice of naming the churches as they began to pop up every time someone disagreed with the church he belonged to.

MikeB.


#13

A deacon or a priest or even a bishop should faithfully preserve the teachings of the Catholic Church and defend it. If they have some other agenda or beliefs that go against the Catholic faith, then they should not be in the Catholic Church. There is no reason for them to stay if they refuse to be faithful. Pray for our clergy and that God will send faithful laborers to His harvest.

Pio


#14

Thank you one and all!! I agree with all of you, and when he stated that Christ did not start catholicism I was very taken back. I was at a loss for words, due to the fact that he has been very good to my husband and myself. I wanted to ask “What about St. Peter being the first pope” at that moment, but I was in shock.
We no longer are with the Parish, and the Deacon retired. since then I have been with two churches and at last I found a good one.
every thing is done by the book, I am very happy there. Thanks again. amen amen.


#15

[quote=Romie]Thank you one and all!! I agree with all of you, and when he stated that Christ did not start catholicism I was very taken back. I was at a loss for words, due to the fact that he has been very good to my husband and myself. I wanted to ask “What about St. Peter being the first pope” at that moment, but I was in shock.
We no longer are with the Parish, and the Deacon retired. since then I have been with two churches and at last I found a good one.
every thing is done by the book, I am very happy there. Thanks again. amen amen.
[/quote]

Hello Romie,

I would imagine your Decon retired so that he could spend more time in his Protestant “Christian” church.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com


#16

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