Christianity a Failure?


#1

I was reading a book about the Cross. In it, there was a politician who claim that Christianity is a failure because the world today is corrupt and there are wars and other immoralities.

I don’t think Christianity is a failure. Many people who made such claim are either ignorant of Christianity, or just have an Anti-Christian agenda.

Christianity involve the love of God, our neighbors, concern for the poor, and those less fortunate. When this is put into practice, all the problems of the world would be gone.

As we can see, humanity has abused his free will by continuing to live in sin and take God out of the picture.

Edited to add:
The Book is called Why the Cross? By Rev. Edward Leen, a Redemptorist priest. The book doesn’t condemn Christianity.

Edward, the author of the book wrote in his opening statement. I have no link to provide but I can quote you several paragraphs that would open a discussion. I don’t think this topic would be in the Apologetics. The book was written during WWII. It would fall into Book Club threads.

"A European politician once stated that Christianity had failed. It did not seem to him that his assertion needed proof. The actual condition of the things in his own country and the other countries appeared to him to be ample justification for what he said. Yet, the statement, so far from being indisputable, can be shown, on analysis, to betray the cross confusion of the thought.

Christianity has not failed, for the simple reason that it has scarcely been tried. It certainly has not been tried on any extensive scale. It could be be branded a failure, if having been guaranteed by its founder to be able to achieve certain definite results, it had been, when put to the test, found wanting. But if Christianity is but imperfect or incomplete applied to the task of reducing to order confused issues of human existence, it cannot be blamed for relative chaos that results."

What is your response to the claim that Christianity is a failure?


#2

We shall find out when we die. If any of us wind up in heaven, Christianity was a success.


#3

:rotfl:


#4

G. K. Chesterton wrote: “Christianity hasn’t been tried and been found wanting; it has been found hard and left untried.” That is the answer to your author’s conjectures, Manny.


#5

Well, this is my take on this.

Luke 12:49-53
*Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." *

So, how is it a failure? Or rather, what does he mean by Christianity?

Anyways, the purpose of Christianity is not peace and prosperity in this life but rather eternal peace (salvation of the souls). That is not to say that the Church (being the true Christianity) in not concerned with that but rather that that it’s not its mission and thus it can’t be a criteria when assessing its successes and failures.


#6

I see his/her point. Many Muslim and Buddhist country aren’t as violent as Christian countries, USA for one example. I know some people may argue that but it’s just a perspective.

For those that believe that salvation most important then Christianity is working. I can’t prove them wrong. But if some people say it’s about it serving God and we do this by serving God’s creations, then those people will most likely help others without having to pray to God first. They will just be a servant.

Anyway, I think I understand the point. To bad the Pope criticized the protesting Muslims that rioted after the Dutch cartoonist was making fun of their prophet. But I really think they were just being human, and felt physically, emotional and socially beat up. But spiritually the line was drawn.


#7

Wow! You mean, for example, that the USA is more violent than Pakistan or Burma? And the Pope was out of line for criticizing mayhem and murder, and because the perpetrators felt emotionally and socially beat up? (nobody beat them up physically, you’re just wrong on that one)

I think you might be well served by receiving a vaccination for Stockholm Syndrome.


#8

“Wow! You mean, for example, that the USA is more violent than Pakistan or Burma??”

I never said that I have traveled to those countries. Maybe you are thinking about your own 1st hand experiences. Was it really that bad for you?

“And the Pope was out of line for criticizing mayhem and murder, and because the perpetrators felt emotionally and socially beat up? (nobody beat them up physically, you’re just wrong on that one)”

I didn’t say they were perpetrators, I said protesters.

But in any case, here is a great example of Christian failure. I don’t know you, so I’m not personally challenging your belief system. Therefore, I’m not attacking you.


#9

I was reading a book about the Cross. In it, there was a politician who claim that Christianity is a failure because the world today is corrupt and there are wars and other immoralities.

The mark of success is the absence of wars and immoralities huh? And this was a politician who determined these standards? :rolleyes:

God bless


#10

Well, Christians fail: that’s built into the picture of Christianity for us by Christ.

For the claim to make better sense we would have to speak of times and places and people.

One signal failure is it seems to be one that we hear less about than, in the U. S., we used to: the bomb.

That we could by design or by accident turn the planet into a cinder box, that we have even the capacity to do it, seems to me a failure beyond words.

Yes, I know the arguments for the bomb and its supposed or real utility, but whatever, if anything, can be said in its favor, must always be weighed against our present ability to use it to our complete destruction.

Is it a Christian failure?

It seems to me at least a failure all Christians must face as Christians.


#11

If we are still here, and we can be in communion with Jesus Christ, The Church, the Angels and The Saints, then we’ve got a platform for success.


#12

I read the posts and i just wonder, why are we comparing Christianity to other political, social, and religious norms? Is this a competition?

Lets looks at Christianity itself and determine if it’s a failure or not. I will say that Christianity is a total failure. The only redeeming value is the desire of Love and Peace towards mankind.

Yet, I say Christianity is a failure, not because of war or hatred, but rather by the way we have strayed. Jesus and the Apostles did not wish for a secular, denominational, divided Christian state. Yet, here we are. And now that it’s to this point, there is no way to fix it. We’re faced with defending the Faith against politically and socially influenced beliefs and “churches”. No longer is our Faith a source of unity like it was desired, but rather it’s a point of contention that has divided us.

Any political or economic strife is irrelevant to me. These are the results of man. The only way these conflicts could be connected to Christianity is if the goal of Christianity was to make believers of all nations. But we know that it is our choice to believe or not and that it is our choice to behave in Christ’s example. While a nice goal, it is not the purpose of Christianity.

While I will maintain that peace and love…Christ-like behavior… (and ultimately salvation) is the goal of Christianity, i will say those 2 goals have no measure of success or failure. As a human, i am open to sin and sinning behavior. Just the possibility of sin, leaves these goals in a state ambiguousness.


#13

I don’t believe that there is no way to fix it. In fact, if truth is indeed transcendant, then it will set us all free. Choice doesn’t really enter into it.


#14

Guys, Guys!!!

Don’t ANY of you trust in the words of Jesus? :shrug:


#15

Few if any “Western” countries can really be called “Christian” countries. And no it’s not just “perspective”. Facts and figures on the proportion of murders, wars, assaults etc. are objective.

Jesus told us “there will be wars”. And yes He came to bring eternal salvation, not to wipe out all strife in this life. But IF people follow his commands there will be no violence. In places and times when most if not all of the population belonged to His Church and seriously tried to conform to His commandements, violence has been drastically reduced compared to other times and places.

Can you imagine what the history of the last 2000 years would have been like if Christ had never founded the Church? If paganism had simply continued everywhere except maybe for some Jews that weren’t wiped out? Human sacrifices, slavery, degradation of women, etc. And very few advances in science, technology and the arts either. I shudder at the thought, even only considering the history of this world alone.

Anyway, I think I understand the point. To bad the Pope criticized the protesting Muslims that rioted after the Dutch cartoonist was making fun of their prophet. But I really think they were just being human, and felt physically, emotional and socially beat up. But spiritually the line was drawn.

What this has to do with the subject I don’t know. the pope was one of the very few non-Moslem leaders who actually criticised the cartoonist and said that Moslems had a right to complain about the cartoonist offending their founder. He then added that the cartoonists’ sin did not justify some Moslems committing murder, arson and vandalism. What exactly is your problem with that?:confused:


#16

G.K. Chesterton answers that question best and someone has already posted it. But it deserves to be said again…

“Christianity hasn’t been tried and been found wanting; it has been found hard and left untried.” G.K. Chesterton

How easy it is to say Christianity has failed when it is men who have failed Christianity. I am a Christian, but I am not a perfect person. Is that the fault of Christianity or does the fault lie with me? I struggle in this life and I learn and grow in my Christianity every day. I see my weaknesses and I strive to perfect them. My Priest says that we all have the potential to be saints. People have been known to do it ya know. And I hope to one day overcome my weaknesses and shortcomings of this life. That is my goal. And as long as that is my goal, then Christianity is alive and well and dwells within me. A failure? I don’t believe so. I believe I am a success in the making. Failure would be to give up on trying entirely.


#17

It is a good quote, but I don’t think it is really true. The Church had enormous political influence in the Middle Ages, but the concept of Christendom was ultimately a failure, torn aprart by the Protestant Reformation and then rendered irrelevant by modernity.

We are the Church militant here on Earth. We don’t win every battle, and there are times of retreat and even rout. Currently we have failed to convince rich Westerners that they have any need for God. However we don’t lose every battle either - no one now believes that Marx superceded Jesus Christ for instance. We haven’t failed, but nor have we succeeded.


#18

Kinda depends on how you define “violent” doesn’t it?

Is a country with a low reported crime rate where a wife can be leagally mutilated, beaten or killed, for showing a lack of respect her husband a more or less violent country?

Chuck


#19

In the sweep of history, it’s hard to see how Christianity, with 2 billion adherents, can be considered a failure by any standard.

Unlike Islam, Christianity has not spread primarily through the sword and the march of conquering armies. A group of largely illiterate men in a backwater Roman province roamed the Empire preaching the Gospel and enduring persecution and martyrdom.

It is nothing short of a miracle that such a thing should happen, and endure for millennia.

There are few other belief systems which can claim such success over such a long period of time.


#20

Amen ! I think some people “want” to see it fail, therefore they claim it has already failed and state it as fact.


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