Christianity banned from Malls?

Stuff like this really just makes me sick.

wnd.com/index.php?pageId=123535

Who's business is it what you're talking about with others? If you don't like a conversation, then just walk away from it. No need to arrest people.

wnd.com/index.php?pageId=36746

I think what disgusts me the most is that the Pastor was 'roughed up' and then charged himself with brutality. uh-huh, yeah right.

I guess I’m not as surprised as I wish I was. We Christians have to wake up and realize that we used to live in a Christian civilization, but it has been overthrown. The other side will be looking for ways to take its vengeance.

*I don’t think that this is about someone who is sitting at the mall, having lunch with friends, chatting about God, and being asked to leave. That would be insane. This is more about a ‘‘mall evangelizer’’ stopping shoppers as they walk by, to witness. I have mixed feelings about that…I think the mall in question here is thinking that it’s probably close to loitering or soliciting. The mall doesn’t want it to appear that it’s condoning or advocating one religion over another, and if you have someone stopping shoppers as they walk by to tell them about Christianity, it can be perceived that the mall is allowing this. Yeah, maybe a little over the top, but I can see the mall’s point. It’s a place of business, suppose a rabbi wanted to do the same? And people of other faiths? Where would it end? I do believe we as Christians, are being marginalized in the secular world, but this isn’t a battle worth fighting. You’re on private property when you enter a mall…and if you want to solicit, for whatever reason–you just can’t. *

*Not sure why the guy was arrested and roughed up? That is not called for. :frowning:

I don’t believe this was a freedom of speech right being violated. The guy can say he was casually chatting…but, you have to stop a stranger in the mall, to speak with him/her. Most likely, he was preaching the Gospel, and using the mall as a platform to do so. Is that wrong? No but the mall might feel that this is a harassment of shoppers. I don’t think this is a standard case where a Christian’s rights are being violated. If you are an atheist, you can’t solicit for your ‘‘cause’’ at the mall, either. I don’t think the mall is solely ‘‘against’’ Christians.*

Was the man having a casual conversation about religion or was he proslytizing on private property and therefore creating an obstruction to the function of the area? I think there is a difference between the two, but having read the article I’m not sure which the man was doing. If the man was doing the first, then he would have my support. But if he was doing the latter, then I think the Mall has legitimate interests which must also be protected.

The article does say no one was complaining. There fore I don't see a problem with evangelizing, it's not proselytizing. If the guy was being inconsiderate, pushy I could see the problem.
But being friendly and engaging is not raw. The Saints all preached in the public square!:thumbsup:

I do see hatred acted out in the story.

[quote="mfj, post:6, topic:185043"]
The article does say no one was complaining. There fore I don't see a problem with evangelizing, it's not proselytizing. If the guy was being inconsiderate, pushy I could see the problem.
But being friendly and engaging is not raw. The Saints all preached in the public square!:thumbsup:

I do see hatred acted out in the story.

[/quote]

I don't think I'd be impolite to someone doing this either, but that doesn't make it ok. Suppose a Muslim was doing this...or a Jewish person? I think I'd be polite to them also, so the reactions of the patrons probably wasn't the issue, it was more that he's using the mall, private property, as a platform to evangelize. Even if it's peacefully. I admire him, personally...though. :)

Freedom of religion, void where prohibited by law.

I am not too sure of the facts. I can not find a news source on this. WND on the second link said the Pastor was charged, even in the article is says the charges were dropped. This makes me wonder what else is atilt in this article.

Anytime someone is “roughed up” unnecessarily, then that is wrong, if that is what happened. On the other hand, a store has a right to ask people to leave. If it was thought that a person was soliciting and mabe driving away customers, then it has a right to ask the person to leave. The second time around, if a criminal trespass warning had been already issued, an arrest is in order.

I will continued to see if I can find a news source on this.

Here is a news source on it;

standardnewswire.com/news/577334906.html

This arrest happened in 2007. The WND dates their report back to 2006.

I think you raise an interesting question. It’s true that the saints preached in the public square, but what actually constitutes the “public square?” Though it’s true that the public may gather in a mall, malls and shopping centers themselves are usually privately owned, aren’t they? So are banks, theaters and bowling alleys. The article doesn’t say no one was complaining. It says, in fact, that someone overheard the conversation taking place and informed security. Still, even if no one was complaining, if the space is private property then the custodians of that property have a right to monitor the actions that take place on that property.

It’s more than just banning religious conversation, Roseville Galleria is against religious or political wear as well.
standardnewswire.com/news/577334906.html
"Another mall rule bans the wearing of any clothing with religious or political messages."

They are anti-religion and politics in general in said mall.

I gather that they don’t have a C28 Not of This World store, as this would be against their policy.

[quote="MoonChild02, post:11, topic:185043"]
It's more than just banning religious conversation, Roseville Galleria is against religious or political wear as well.
standardnewswire.com/news/577334906.html
"Another mall rule bans the wearing of any clothing with religious or political messages."

They are anti-religion and politics in general in said mall.

I gather that they don't have a C28 Not of This World store, as this would be against their policy.

[/quote]

This sums it up

PJI President Brad Dacus commented, "Singling out religious speech for punishment violates our most basic principles of free expression. If anyone can be arrested for wearing a Christian t-shirt or mentioning God in a shopping mall, we have lost not only our freedom, but our sanity as a society."

from your link

Some of these ‘street evangelists’ can be quite obnoxious and aggressive (we had some like that at the University I attended) and even Anti-Catholic so I think we need more information on what this guy was doing/saying before he was asked to leave.

Also, for the most part, the 1st Amendment protects you from the State not private property owners. After all, if someone comes into your house and starts saying thing you don’t like, you can tell them to leave. If a group of people ‘peaceably assemble’ on your front lawn, you can demand that they take it to the sidewalk or you’ll have them arrested for trespassing.

Anytime someone is “roughed up” unnecessarily, then that is wrong, if that is what happened. On the other hand, a store has a right to ask people to leave. If it was thought that a person was soliciting and mabe driving away customers, then it has a right to ask the person to leave. The second time around, if a criminal trespass warning had been already issued, an arrest is in order.

Yes, and the pastor offered to leave, and was-still- arrested. The article made this out to the be first offense.

Some of these ‘street evangelists’ can be quite obnoxious and aggressive (we had some like that at the University I attended) and even Anti-Catholic so I think we need more information on what this guy was doing/saying before he was asked to leave.

Yeah, we had some annoying folks at our college campus that told us all we were going to hell because we go to college, and if you go to college that automatically means you are fornicating, masturbating,drinking and doing drug. sigh we debated with him for forever, but there was no reasoning. Did you know, that according to him, Ghandi and everyone else whoever existed is in hell? XD Sounds like thats the place to be then…lol!

But to me, I didn’t think the article meant anything other then a private conversation. I didn’t pick up that maybe he was preacing. In that case, yes he sould have been asked to, and allowed to leave.

But if he was just having a simple conversation, we seriously need to wake up and smell the roses, cause I’m definitley getting 1984 vibes…

One reason like malls is that free speech can be limited there.
Evangelizers, petition signature-seekers and loud (but not legally disorderly) teens, &c are all free to roam around in front of downtown stores.
This sounds like a case where the mall went overboard.

Calm down, judging by the article the ‘youth pastor’ is probably a Protestant and he might have been trying to proleytise Catholics.

Besides since it is the anti-Catholic Protestant sects like some 7th days, Baptists and Evangelicals who do most of the proletysing the rule will only affect them and might turn out to be beneficial for Catholic shoppers with weak faith as they won’t be stolen.

The only problem I have with that rule is that a priest cannot wear his Roman Collar or his cassock and a nun her habit when and if he / she goes shopping there.

I find this odd, here in the UK whenever I go shopping in my local mall there are numerous groups evangelising. Including SDAs and JWs, also you have some Muslim groups, Hare krishna etc. Half the time since they end up evangelising and preaching near each other you can see them reading each other’s literature when it gets a bit quiet or see people from each group getting coffees from people from the others. The SDA contingent is so regular you can set your watch by it. Personally they are the best as they actually have a rather fine little choir with keyboard and guitar and woodwind that plays for them. Frankly If we could convert them I’d send them to my parish which has absymal standards in that regard. They are the most succesful as well as the area has a large percentage of African and Caribbean people and the SDA has a large presence in these groups in this area. That is because, sadly, there is for many people from those groups the perception that the Catholic or Protestant Churches represent European Imperialism.

You do find anti-Catholic street preachers here. My abiding memory of one is at a seaside town where he started shouting about all the Catholics walking and how we should drop to our knees and abandon our worship of the great whore. The local police just asked him to move on after a few moments.

The First Amendment only limits actions by Congress in reference to free speech.

I know that I have walked around areas where pushy solicitors accost those passing by and avoid such areas. If evangelization was taken this ambuch style, as it occasionally does, I can see why a business would not want them driving customers away. If this was happening in front of a store, I can see where an employee from there might be a complaintant.

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