Christianity is not meant to be Christ-centered only


#1

I said this in response to the great protestant question, “Do you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior”. I answered yes, immediately and asked him, if he had a personal relationship with God the Father or God the Holy Spirit and I don’t think he was asked that question before because he kind of studdered in response, and finally said yes.

Christianity is meant to be Trinitarian, not Christocentric. Does anyone disagree with that statement?

God Bless.


#2

That’s sad, you should have answered no. Jesus is not “a personal Lord and Savior” and this heretical, extra-scriptural teaching is promulgated in great error by unwitting protestants.

Having a personal relationship with your Triune God, great. But this whole personal Savior nonsense is just man-made mumbo jumbo.


#3

sure. and it is meant to be focused toward others too.

“What so ever you do for the least …” is centered on Christ and on others

"As the Father has sent me so I send you " looks out to others

“Love one another …”

"When he saw their faith (his friends) he said (to the paralytic) ‘Your sins are forgiven.’ "

I could go on. The point is if you stop it at the “personal realtionship” with Christ or even the Trinity - you have missed the point entirely. A personal relationship with Christ or the Trinity must draw us out of ourselves.


#4

Without digressing too far, I know what you are referring to but remember that, the “individualistic” Jesus thing is probably too much for them to handle in the first place and I would rather focus on another issue then explain how “Americanism” is a heresy


#5

oh, yes, sorry. I’ll behave. I just get riled whenever I hear this one…


#6

I am growing to really dislike that phrase. Personal Lord and Savior? Like a personal trainer, a personal secretary? Is the president my personal president? Is the pope my personal pope?

No, Jesus is the Lord and Savior of all of Creation.

All FWIW…


#7

ahem, i think he wanted to stay away from this topic…


#8

Our OP should also have asked him for the verse(s) that demand we “accept Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior.”

It doesn’t exist, but still they cling to this idea as if it is a biblical given, which is odd for those claiming to be Bible only or Bible primary Christians. Yes? :wink:


#9

could someone explain that to me, please? I know it’s not “Jesus-only” religion, but what is wrong with personal Saviour? PM me please if it doesn’t fit here…


#10

“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.” (1 Timothy 2:5-6)

“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:1-2)

Jesus Christ isn’t our personal savior. He’s the savior of the whole world and all who choose to follow Him. We are saved not as individuals, but as members of a group, as members of a spiritual family, as members of the household of God (which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth).

Jeremy


#11

Would it be correct then to say, “I have, personally, accepted Jesus as the Savior of the whole world”?


#12

could someone explain that to me, please? I know it’s not “Jesus-only” religion, but what is wrong with personal Saviour? PM me please if it doesn’t fit here…

A former Fundamentalist turned Catholic might provide the best answer, but I’ll muddle through with something :slight_smile: .

I think it has to do with the individualist approach of the “personal relationship with Christ” which is also intrinsically intertwined with the theology of once-saved-always-saved. In other words, when you do establish that “personal relationship” then in Fundamentalist theology, nothing can undo it.

It also implies that one does not need the Church or the Sacraments when you can be pals with Jesus.

Did that help? I hope someone explains it better than I have.


#13

yes, that is the way it SHOULD be said…


#14

I would say “…as the Redeemer of the whole world”. The other way implies universal salvation i.e. no hell.


#15

I have and their quote stuff like

Philippians 3:8
New King James Version (NKJV)

Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ


#16

I would say “Savior” but that is because Christ came to save the world… our acceptance of that salvation is the key which allows us entry into heaven. The fact that Christ came to save the whole world does not imply that there is no hell or hell-bound.


#17

I disagree promethius. As Catholics we certainly believe that Jesus is Lord and that Jesus is our Savior. We believe He died to save us. He died for the whole human race and also for each one individually - in the sense that He loves each of us individually and personally; if you were the only person in existence, He would have died to save you.

One has a personal relationship with persons; that means a relationship with Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity, as well as relationships with the other two Persons.

Nita


#18

Nothing at all - it’s able to picked up as meaning different things though :slight_smile:

What Evangelical Protestants mean by it is the Saviour Who “loved me and gave himself for me”: the Evangelical is making those words of St.Paul’s in Galatians his own as well - the Evangelical’s emphasis is on the fact that Christ has saved not only others, but him also. IOW, he is among those who are loved by the Saviour, Who is his no less truly than theirs. And love is an act of one person to another - nothing could be more fully personal than God’s Love for each one of us; not least because that Love is a Person, Who died as fully for each person as though there were no others.

As for individualism - Calvinists are Evangelicals, and though they seem not to use the exact words (so far as ICR), they do insist strongly on personal religion: as reading the Puritans & their successors makes abundantly clear. And Calvinists have a high doctrine of the Church; as did the Puritans. They have Baptism in the Name of the Blessed Trinity just as we do; they even use the word “sacrament” for it on occasion.

Some Catholics seem to understand it as a claim that the Evangelical is saying “He is my Saviour - & no one else’s”. Which is something entirely different.

IMO, Catholics can seem to be so keen to reject that claim (in either meaning or both ?) that they sometimes risk de-personalising life in Christ; as though the ideal attitude between Christ & Christians were closer to impersonality, & to the loss of the individual in an anonymous crowd. Which is pretty much what society tends to be like. Father Faber at least would not have understood that at all.

Sometimes it looks as though Protestants will be criticised ***whatever ***they say :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

As for the title, it over-simplifies: because Christ is the Mediator, & the Spirit is His also - Christ-centredness, is not Christomonism. To be Christ-centred looks after itself, because it is not directed to itself, but to Christ; Who is not confimed to our ideas, but is their Lord; as He is of all things. He can’t be told what to do - thank goodness :slight_smile:


#19

When it comes to salvation Jesus always made Himself the object of faith. And throughout the N.T. faith is brought home to a personal level, since the Body of Christ is made up of those who, personally, have believed the gospel message concerning Him.

For twenty-three years I agreed Jesus was “the” Savior, Second Person of the Trinity, incarnated and died for our sins. But at the age of 24 someone spoke to me about a personal faith in Christ. And although I had previously “agreed” with all that was taught “of” Him, I’d never actually, pesonally believed it of me. I knew I hadn’t, and Christ ever since has become not only the Savior, but my Savior.

I no longer just believed of Him, but I personally believed “in Him.” And for the first time in my life I knew, without a doubt, I was saved. And like the Apostle Paul, I understood salvation to be on a very personal level:Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the {life} which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.Although He is the Savior of the world, it is individuals who believe “in Himpersonally that enter into that salvation. It’s one thing to believe “of Him,” quite another to personally believe “in Him.”

It is this personal faith, “in Him” by which God justified Abraham (Gen. 15:6), and by which He justifies the ungodly today (Rom. 4:5).


#20

If it not meant to be Christ centered then it is not Christianity.
Look at what Paul said. He most certainly thought Christianity is Christ centered.
Phil 1:21

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
NASU

Phil 3:10-11
10 **that I may know Him **(Jesus Christ)and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
NASU

Phil 4:13
13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.
NASU

Gal 2:20
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
NASU

2 Cor 5:21
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that **we might become the righteousness of God in Him.**NASU

Christianity is not about us, it is all about Christ.:thumbsup:


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