I had to resort to AM talk radio to hear about this! Currently in Egypt, they are persecuting all catholics and christians for their beliefs, they are killing people in the streets, burning down churches, etc. Has anyone else wondered why this has not been reported on any mainstream media here in the US? I watch CNN everyday when I get up, yet I have never heard anything about this.
Are they just hoping catholics and christians in the US do not hear about it?
Doubt it. They just don’t want anyone to know. Its the same in the UK. The bottom line is that the media is denying that Christians are targeted and slaughtered. They will accept the evidence of the dreadful holocaust during World War II, whilst deliberately suppressing the reality facing Christians today. Hypocritical or what?
The secular media doesn’t want people to know about this because the Catholic Church is against their hedonist agenda. They have worked hard to paint traditional Christianity as mean, bigoted, and the cause of all wars. In keeping with this, the secular media doesn’t want the public to feel any kind of sympathy for Christians in general. Their philosophy seems to be “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, and I think that’s why they always side with the Muslims no matter how many times Muslims attack Christians and even when terror attacks against secular society are done in the name of Islam.
Haven’t you heard? Traditional Christianity is bad! It instills good morals, the ideas of divinity, and worst of all…A dissenting viewpoint!Gasp Besides, making Christians out to be monsters is easy; it’s not like they’re smart or intelligent. Just keep repeating the same lie over and over, and eventually people will believe! /Endsarcasm
Anti Christianity is one of the last acceptable prejudices out there. It’s sad but true. Prayer is one of the keys to help solve this crisis.
Catholics and Christians?!? … uhmmm … Catholics are Christians :rolleyes:
The persecution of Christians in the middle east is not new - and this is being covered … perhaps not on cable news channels that refuse to report on Islamic terrorism … but some news channels are … look for a different source of news - you should ask yourself what else are they not telling you about? - and how are they skewing the news they are reporting?
and yet the mainstream media and those who ‘control’ what is news and what is not, seem to be siding with the islamic extremists, and saying everyone who opposes Mosque building is simply racist and stereotyping muslims, its easy to see what path the US is heading down, and eventually, I truly believe laws will be put in place to protect anything to do with Islam, even the extremist factions, and other laws to prevent christians from practicing and trying to spread the word of God to others.
Given that Egypt, Iraq, Syria all currently have Christian communities that can not only trace their history back during the time of Islamic rule over those lands, but prior to Islam itself either your above is incorrect or Islam does a horrible job at exterminating Christians.
With the exception of Pakistan all of those nations I mentioned were once majority Christian nations before being conquered by Islamic armies. Today only a tiny fraction remain Christian and those that remain are constantly in fear of their lives.
I’ll grant that blowing up churches hasn’t always been the norm. Originally, it was seizure of churches and conversion of them to mosques, imposition of Dhimmi taxes, classification of Christians and Jews as second class citizens… It was the legal right of Islamic authorities to seize Christian children take them from their homes never to be seen again an parents had NO standing to protest. A Christian had no legal standing to protest criminal behavior or exploitation by a muslim neighbor (technically not allowed, but only punished if a complaint was delivered by a muslim). Compared to Hitler, perhaps a horrible job of extermination, I suppose…
You go find and ask any Christian from that part of the world and almost every one will tell you the same story: most of their muslim neighbors were decent, civilized and friendly until the day came when they transformed into a faceless mob committing violence, looting, intimidation and cruelty. All with the “blessing” of Allah.
But you and I have been down that road before. I suspect that you will continue to ignore the atrocities endemic in the Islamic world until and unless they come for you yourself. Too late by then.
Hey thanks, but I’ve already had Islamic extremists come after me. Spent two tours in Iraq dealing with such individuals. Not only that, I’ve actually had to deal with the after effects of said individuals attacking civilians and my brothers in arms. If you like, I’ll be more than happy to PM you a full description of how it feels to have to inventory the bloody remains of a buddy or pack up someone’s unopened Christmas presents.
I don’t need to base my opposition to Islam on faulty or biased arguments, faulty or biased sources, personal experience (positive or negative) with it, anger, or fear. Defending the Truth (in this case the errors/falseness/incompleteness of Islam) with non-Truth is self defeating, and frankly silly. The Truth, like the Church, can stand on its own; no need to “improve it” or “help it out.”
You probably don’t get it because your only concern is what is happening to Christian Iraqis with either true or willful ignorance of what is actually going on there. Guess what, those same atrocities that have/are being taken against Christian Iraqis have/are also being taken against all Iraqis. Your particular tribe/sub-tribe/family group determines who considers you and, for immoral individuals, who you consider a “marked man,” not your particular faith.
Iraq isn’t like the US where you might happen to know your grandmother’s maiden name, most likely have cousins who are of a different faith, and don’t figure out a person’s social/economic standing based on their extended family’s name (there isn’t even an equivalent to tribe in our social naming norms). If you want to “get it” about Iraq, you first need to figure out how Iraqi society/social interaction works. Iraqi Hatfield isn’t being attacked/killed by Iraqi McCoy because Iraqi Hatfield is a Christian (or Sunni or Shia); Iraqi Hatfield is being attacked/killed because he is an Iraqi Hatfield.
During the height of the sectarian violence in '06-'07 when Sunnis and Shiites were blowing up each other’s Mosques and killing each other we had an African Shia living in a Sunni neighborhood. He was able to live there and not worry about his safety (well anymore than the average Iraqi had to worry about his safety) because he, unlike native Iraqi Shiites, didn’t have any tribal “baggage” to worry about.
So it’s sheer coincidence that the Iraqi Christian population has declined by 90% in the last decade and a half? Or are you asserting that that’s the norm in Iraq?
If I understand you correctly, you’re claiming that there is no conscious effort to target Christians there by the jihadis. But your assertions don’t match the numbers being published.
P.S. Thanks for your service over there. I was an early supporter of Bush policy on the matter and was appalled that no WMDs were ever really located. You have my sincere apologies for having been so wrong.
Don’t worry about my service. The only reason I mentioned it was because you assumed my position in regards to Islam was solely because I didn’t have first hand experience with Islamic extremists.
No, it’s not sheer coincidence that the Iraqi Christian population has declined to a larger degree than the Iraqi Sunni or Iraqi Shia population. The Iraqi Christian population has been targeted to a far greater extent than either of the other populations. They are an easy target (historically been discriminated against, had some special protections under the previous and hated regime, much smaller and weaker part of the Iraqi population, far more compact distribution within Iraq, etc).
My point was that the Iraqi Christians weren’t targeted just because they were Christian and their attackers didn’t attack them just because the attackers were Muslim. Additionally, the attacks on Iraqi Christians weren’t unique. Everyone was being attacked/targeted.
Back to your post that I first responded to- You can’t use an example of what happens to a minority or discriminated minority of a population during a full on “free for all” sectarian conflict as the basis for what happens to the minority or discriminated minority all the time. Stating that the mere presence of Islam as the religion of the majority of a population or incorporation into a state’s government causes non-Islamic citizens in that state to slowly be exterminated is incorrect. The fact that there still are Christian populations in those three states you mentioned proves this to be false.
The above, however, does not also mean these non-Islamic citizens are not discriminated against. History, nor Islamic practices, does not support the “everyone is equal and all was good” argument. But, that’s a completely different position than the one you posted.
To answer the question presented as the title of this thread (which is a completely different situation than Iraq)- Yeah, they are and it’s nothing new. The Egyptian Christian population has long been the scapegoat for everything wrong in Egypt. Part of this is due to the built in discrimination found in Islam and part is due to basic social norms (distinct, separate minority “they aren’t like the rest of us” population facing discrimination from “we’re the normal ones” majority population).
We don’t need to use incorrect (intentional or not) and/or biased arguments and sources to argue against Islam or point out its errors. Doing so only weakens our position in those we are trying to educate about Islam because they’ll see the errors in our own arguments, conclude that we either don’t know what we are talking about or are against Islam for some other reason (such as politics), and ignore us.
I’m all for comprehension of nuances, but there comes a line when one is merely attempting to rationalize reality in order to avoid unpleasant realities. The fact is that if you’re a muslim in America and are vocal/visible about it, you might get the finger once in a while and that is unfortunate. But if you’re a Christian and visible/vocal about it in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, North Sudan, Egypt, Syria, Afghanistan, Algeria, Libya, Mali you’ve got a good chance of getting killed for it.
Even in slightly more civilized places like Turkey and Indonesia, a muslim who converts to Christianity has a fairly high chance of being killed by his/her own family for it.
These are not coincidences or peculiar regional tribal issues. The problem is rooted in Muhammed, his “impeccable” example and teachings. That’s not to say Islam is all bad. The Church is clear that we have some common ground to work with. But there’s bad in the essence of Islam and what’s happening in Egypt today is directly related to that evil.
"Iran’s ayatollahs are showing frustration with Iranians leaving Islam for Christianity in large numbers despite the threat of execution for apostasy.
A former intelligence officer in the Guards, who has now defected to Europe, told The Daily Caller that the country’s regime has ordered the domestic intelligence apparatus to use drastic measures to stop them — including imprisonment, torture and the mass-burning of Bibles."
"Tens of thousands of Bibles smuggled into the country have been confiscated and burned by the Guards under the order of the Islamic regime. In one case, TheDC’s source said, the office of Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, ordered the Guards to burn all confiscated Bibles in order to further stop conversions.
The Bible, Khamenei’s office insisted, is not considered a holy book."
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