Christmas Mass obligation

If I go to the children's Christmas Mass on Christmas Eve do I need to go to Mass on Christmas Day?

[quote="Holland, post:1, topic:180028"]
If I go to the children's Christmas Mass on Christmas Eve do I need to go to Mass on Christmas Day?

[/quote]

It depends. A morning or afternoon Mass on Christmas Eve would not fulfill the obligation.

Canon Law:

Can. 1248 §1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.

Most of the parishes in our diocese have a 4 PM Mass on Christmas Eve that counts for Christmas.

I think you need to attend the Christmas Vigil Mass to fulfill your Christmas day obligation. If the children s mass is the Christmas Vigil mass then you are ok, but it doesn’t sound like it is. I think you have to watch what time the mass is held. I would not consider a 4pm mass a vigil mass. I would say anything after 5pm or 530pm. But I don’t have anything to back this up. The Christmas Vigil mass at my church is at 530pm. Midnight mass is at midnight and not 10pm or 11pm. I would check with you pastor or church bulletin for mass times and what mass is designated the Vigil mass.

if it is posted with the other Christmas eve Masses, it meets your obligation, if it is held some other time--before the time for anticipated (not vigil) Mass for feasts, usually 4 pm in most dioceses, it does not. What does the bulletin or parish website say for your parish? be warned that Mass will probably be packed so if you don't have kids you might for your own comfort wish to attend another Mass that evening. In our culture here la Nocha Buena is principal time for the Christmas liturgy, so most parishes have 3-4 Masses Christmas eve, and only one on Christmas day (mostly for Winter Texans and other old folks like us)

Our parish bulletin reads; 4pm vigil Mass, 6pm children's Mass, 7:30 Spanish Mass, and 12am midnight Mass (11pm pre-Mass carol choir service). Any of these Masses would be fine in place of Christmas morning Mass. Merry Christmas everyone !

In Christ,
Betsy

As long as the Mass itself begins at 4 PM or later, you will have fulfilled the obligation for Christmas by being at that Mass, so no, you will not have to go to Mass again on Christmas day.

Thanks everyone! I have family that want to attend this particular Mass. I will make sure we get there early.

\Midnight mass is at midnight and not 10pm or 11pm.\

Pope Benedict is celebrating it at 10 PM, Rome time.

In that case, it’s “10 o’clock Mass”

Any priest (certainly the Pope himself) can celebrate Christmas Eve Mass at 10:00 o’clock.

Actually, it still uses the “Mass at Midnight” readings…so it still can be considered midnight mass.

While I tend to agree that this is the way it is, Michelle arnold of CAF disagrees that this is definitive.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=20461

“Midnight” is twelve o’clock in the earliest hour of the day

10 o’clock is 10 o’clock

Ergo, 10 o’clock Mass–or Mass in the night on Christmas Eve.

Noon is twelve o’clock in the middle of the day

4 o’clock is 4 o’clock

A Mass at 10 o’clock is no more “Midnight Mass” than it is “4 o’clock Mass”

If it aint Midnight, it aint Midnight Mass.

Midnight is when Mickey’s big hand is on the twelve, and Mickey’s little hand is on the twelve.

If Mickey’s big hand is on the twelve, and Mickey’s little hand is on the 10, then it’s 10 o’clock.

(sorry, just had to say that–nothin’ personal to anyone:))

Midnight is a time-of-day. It is a word which indicates a particular hour on the clock. Unless the clock reads that hour, then it’s not Midnight.

And besides, the official word from the Vatican is that HH is celebrating “Mass in the night”–which is certainly his perogative (as it is that of any other priest).

The readings for Christmas can be moved around at the celebrant’s discretion. If a simple parish priest can move them, so can the Pope.

[quote="FrDavid96, post:13, topic:180028"]

Midnight is a time-of-day. It is a word which indicates a particular hour on the clock. Unless the clock reads that hour, then it's not Midnight.

And besides, the official word from the Vatican is that HH is celebrating "Mass in the night"--which is certainly his perogative (as it is that of any other priest).

The readings for Christmas can be moved around at the celebrant's discretion. If a simple parish priest can move them, so can the Pope.

[/quote]

It's more than a time of day, which is my point. The time "lesson" you gave was not needed.

My point is, the actual mass readings are collected in the lectionary, called "Midnight Mass". which is the actual name of the mass being celebrated. Like "Solemnity of....whatever" Midnight mass is referring to MORE than just the time of day.

Not quite. The Church says “evening” someone else is removing the word “evening” and replacing it with the word “afternoon.” Canon law doesn’t work that way. When the canon says “evening” the canon means “evening.”

We can’t replace the word “evening” any more than we can replace it with the word “morning” or for that matter, replace the word “Sunday” with the word “Wednesday.”

Pope John Paul II did clarify this issue. The time of evening is evening. He defined it as the “time of first vespers” which is liturgically defined by the Church as 4 o’clock.

The argument about “any time after noon” has canonical holes in it so huge one could drive a truck through it.

  1. The canons apply in Latin, not in the vernacular. We have to read the Latin word vespers (which means 4 o’clock), not the English word evening. The author is ignoring the Latin canon and trying to apply the English translation. This is lesson #1 in canon law classes–only the Latin text is binding.

  2. Canons are to be interpreted according to the plain meaning of the words–not according to their slang meaning. This is lesson #2 in canon law classes. The author is attempting to apply an anachronistic Southern American slang usage for the word “evening” to canon law–and doing so in England. Slang definitions of words do not apply in canon law.

The argument of anytime after noon has as much credibility as someone who says
1 the canons say we use bread for Mass
2. bread is American slang for money
3. Therefore, we should consecrate dollar bills

It presents exactly the same line of reasoning.

The Vatican is not calling it Midnight Mass.

[quote="FrDavid96, post:15, topic:180028"]
Not quite. The Church says "evening" someone else is removing the word "evening" and replacing it with the word "afternoon." Canon law doesn't work that way. When the canon says "evening" the canon means "evening."

We can't replace the word "evening" any more than we can replace it with the word "morning" or for that matter, replace the word "Sunday" with the word "Wednesday."

Pope John Paul II did clarify this issue. The time of evening is evening. He defined it as the "time of first vespers" which is liturgically defined by the Church as 4 o'clock.

The argument about "any time after noon" has canonical holes in it so huge one could drive a truck through it.

  1. The canons apply in Latin, not in the vernacular. We have to read the Latin word vespers (which means 4 o'clock), not the English word evening. The author is ignoring the Latin canon and trying to apply the English translation. This is lesson #1 in canon law classes--only the Latin text is binding.

  2. Canons are to be interpreted according to the plain meaning of the words--not according to their slang meaning. This is lesson #2 in canon law classes. The author is attempting to apply an anachronistic Southern American slang usage for the word "evening" to canon law--and doing so in England. Slang definitions of words do not apply in canon law.

The argument of anytime after noon has as much credibility as someone who says
1 the canons say we use bread for Mass
2. bread is American slang for money
3. Therefore, we should consecrate dollar bills

It presents exactly the same line of reasoning.

[/quote]

Take it up with Michele.

However, if using your line of reasoning, the general meaning of the word for "evening" is after 6PM, or another use is after dark. 4 PM is way before 6PM, so JPII would then be in violation of your explanation

[quote="agapewolf, post:17, topic:180028"]
Take it up with Michele.

However, if using your line of reasoning, the general meaning of the word for "evening" is after 6PM, or another use is after dark. 4 PM is way before 6PM, so JPII would then be in violation of your explanation

[/quote]

No, it's JPII who promulgated the law. He gets to decide what the law means. And he did say that the time for the so-called anticipated Mass is "the time of First Vespers" which the Churchh says is 4 o'clock.

Regardless of what the English word "evening" means, the Latin word "vespers" means (by the Church's definition) 4 o'clock. That's the only definition which applies, because the English text translation is only a tool--it has no binding force.

Again, we have to apply the Latin word, and the Church's definition of the word.

[quote="FrDavid96, post:18, topic:180028"]
No, it's JPII who promulgated the law. He gets to decide what the law means. And he did say that the time for the so-called anticipated Mass is "the time of First Vespers" which the Churchh says is 4 o'clock.

Regardless of what the English word "evening" means, the Latin word "vespers" means (by the Church's definition) 4 o'clock. That's the only definition which applies, because the English text translation is only a tool--it has no binding force.

Again, we have to apply the Latin word, and the Church's definition of the word.

[/quote]

You missed my point entirely. I was talking about YOUR explanation, #2...plain meaning of the words. JPII is in violation of YOUR explanation.

How so?

I’m merely repeating what John Paul himself said.

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