Christmas - My brother and I almost got into a fist fight!


#1

Well… yes I’m afraid I’ve had a very bad experience this christmas with my brother. I’m posting here because I think my family is in need of your prayers.

Today after christmas dinner my brother and I managed to get into a serious argument. It all started when I joked about my brothers web site not being purchased by a larger company.
This caused him to turn on me and make a smart remark in reply. I then asked him what was wrong and he jumped on me again with another remark. I could sense, as I have sensed for the past two years that he was holding a huge grudge against me. I wasn’t sure what it was but I knew that I had about enough of it. The last thing I want is my brother to hate me for some reason.

I then raised my voice out of anoyance and asked him further by saying, " I really don’t know what is wrong with you. " Why are you so mad at me all the time?" He started to shout at me and yell his head off right infront of my mother and my father. I stood up to him and confronted him on everything he was saying. He acussed me of all manner of unfounded actions and started to bring up the past. A past that I said I was sorry for a few years ago. He told me that he didn’t trust me and then accused me of being selfish and jealous of him. He told me I was insane. "He yelled at me and did it right infront of my face. he sai that he wanted to kick my *** in. I yelled right back at him to let him know that I wasn’t going to let him push me around like that. There were many times during the arugment with him that I camled down and tried to talk to him in a very calm manner. But he only accused me of “acting all calm” (whatever that ment)
There were several times when my borther yelled right in my face with total anger and hate for me. He wanted to punch me. I just stod there and yelled right back at him. I was ready to block any punch that he tried to through at me. There was one point when my father had to step in between us. I had no intention of punching him at all but I did want to see how far he was willing to go. I thought that he needed to hell at me just to get it out of his system. I let him do that and I even let him continue to insult me and say all kinds of hurtfull things. There was one point in the argument where I just stood there and said, “is there anything else you want to say?” He took me up on it and continued to tell me that I deserved to lose my condo. He said it over and over again that I deserved it. Anyway, I just hope this is all out of his system.

The sad thing is I don’t feel that it is. I think he will always hate me for some reason. Until he opens his heart to Jesus things will never change with him. he is too full of hate.

Anyway. I feel really bad because my mother started crying.

Well… I think I might go out with my friends to night at 10:30 (who are jewish) just to let my brother get over his hate and anger. I hate to just leave my family on christmas, but I just don’t feel welcome at home. Don’t worry about me I will have my scapular on. I think my brother needs to find some peace with my family tonight without me.

Please pray for my brother and I. I know that I’m not perfect but by brother clearly does not have jesus in his heart. If he did he would not of said the things that he said to me. Everything is very awkward right now. My family has a difficult relationship because of all the hard things that has happened to us in the past. My brother expects things to be different but he doesn’t help matters.

What can I do to get him to have trust in me? He doesn’t have any respect for me either. He thinks I’m some kind of evil bastard.

He accused me to throwing the donation I made while at church infront of everyones face. The truth is I hid the money in my hands but the usher to the right of me was too quick. I had to reach around across my family to put the money in from the usher on the left. He never made any donation and yet he calls me selfish?

Things are calm now but my brother and I are still not talking or even looking at each other. He is my younger brother and I know that I am the one that needs to set him right. The sad thing is I just don’t know what to do. he is 28 and I’m 30. if christ isn’t in his heart then there isn’t much I can work with.

oh I went out and picked up some tim bits and put them on the table infront of him. he said thanks so maybe there is hope. anyway… I just wish I knew what to do.


#2

I’m sorry for your difficult relationship with your brother. I know there are many here on the forums who have problems in their families, too. I hope you find peace in your family. I will say a prayer for you.


#3

[quote=Giannawannabe]I’m sorry for your difficult relationship with your brother. I know there are many here on the forums who have problems in their families, too. I hope you find peace in your family. I will say a prayer for you.
[/quote]

thank you I will say a pray for you and your family as well.

thanks again


#4

I know it must be difficult… I will say a prayer for you and for your brother. Light a votive candle for him and give him to God. Let the Holy Spirit work on him. You can let him know in a letter that you are sincerely sorry for your past actions to him and you would like his forgiveness. You don’t have to grovel or anything to him, but if you tell him someting to the effects of “I know I’ve apologized before, but I apologize again now. I want you to know how much you mean to me, how much I love you. And I can’t make you change anything about you, but I want you to know I will pray for you and will continue to pray that someday you and I can sit down and have a good discussion about us. Until then, I have a candle lit for you, uplifting my prayers for you.” And leave it at that.

God bless you and yours, I will keep you in my prayers.
Theresa


#5

sounds like every holiday meal ever held for our family.

in a similar situation years ago, which drew me to confession aferwards, a wise priest gave me the letter of James to read and meditate upon.


#6

Phew. Been there in a similar blow out with my sister. I talked about it in confession because I felt I was carrying too much anger about it in my heart. The priest really comforted me and talked about how important forgiveness is. Until you forgive, you can never move on to solve anything.

I’ll say a prayer for you and your brother.


#7

I am so sorry for your problem. I wonder what would happen if you sat down, with your parents, and told your brother you loved him, that you are family, and when your parents are gone you two will still be family and that your cherish that bond. Tell him must must have done something in the past that has bothered him, (whether you did or not) and ask his forgiveness. Perhaps because your parents are there, he might feel more disposed to making amends. This my be simplistic, and only a suggestion, but who knows, it just might work. You know your family.


#8

Your situation sounds quite similar to my own with my brother (I am older than he is, too) except we never got into a long, nasty argument and I’m a gal not a guy. Anyway, he simply ignored me for years. Finally, I gave him a funny birthday card that broke the ice (not that you should do that, just relating what happened) and sometime later he told me that he had resented me since we were children because our mom and dad constantly held me up as an example for him to follow. They’d say, “She gets such good grades, why can’t you?” “She does what she’s told…” “She’d never sulk like that…” You get the idea. I had no idea they had said such things to him, and I told him so, as well as how I thought it was totally wrong of them to have compared us like that. (Our parents were deceased, so we never got the chance to talk to them about it.) I told him I never expected him to be like me or do the things I did. In short, we had a nice heart to heart talk that cleared up a lot of misunderstandings.

All those years, instead of turning his anger towards our parents, he turned it towards me because as a child he felt powerless to tell them how he felt but he could act out against me, someone more his equal. I rather think this is typical of older/younger sibling rivalry, especially when the parents make the huge mistake of trying to motivate a younger child by throwing up before him all the “perfections” and accomplishments of an older child. From the things you’ve told us and the depth of your brother’s resentment, I’d say this is probably the kind of thing that happened in your family, too.

I suggest you sit down with your parents and ask them if they used you as the “perfect” brother example with your younger brother. And if they did, which it sounds like they did, then try to get them to admit it to your brother and ask his forgiveness for making such a big mistake with him. If they don’t want to do it, then you go to your brother and let him know that you never expected him to be you nor would you want him to be you. Let him know the things you appreciate about him and what things you have always admired in him, because there must be some such things you could share with him.

And pray about it all, of course. I prayed for you and your brother and family this morning as a part of my daily intentions in Morning Prayer. I truly hope you and your family can be open with one another and get this whole thing straightened out. God bless you all.


#9

[quote=tamccrackine]I know it must be difficult… I will say a prayer for you and for your brother. Light a votive candle for him and give him to God. Let the Holy Spirit work on him. You can let him know in a letter that you are sincerely sorry for your past actions to him and you would like his forgiveness. You don’t have to grovel or anything to him, but if you tell him someting to the effects of “I know I’ve apologized before, but I apologize again now. I want you to know how much you mean to me, how much I love you. And I can’t make you change anything about you, but I want you to know I will pray for you and will continue to pray that someday you and I can sit down and have a good discussion about us. Until then, I have a candle lit for you, uplifting my prayers for you.” And leave it at that.

God bless you and yours, I will keep you in my prayers.
Theresa
[/quote]

This is a great Idea and I even thought of it myself. The only problem is that my brother would most likely just consider it to be a load of lies. He would just laugh at it.


#10

[quote=Celia]Phew. Been there in a similar blow out with my sister. I talked about it in confession because I felt I was carrying too much anger about it in my heart. The priest really comforted me and talked about how important forgiveness is. Until you forgive, you can never move on to solve anything.

I’ll say a prayer for you and your brother.
[/quote]

I am totally ready to forgive him on all levels. I even offered my appologies to him in every way I could during that conversaion but he did not accept any of it. He is bring up something that happened during the past almost 10 years ago. I can’t even remember the situation myself. The fact is he has no respect for me and he is content with being abusive and insulting.


#11

[quote=mary bobo]I am so sorry for your problem. I wonder what would happen if you sat down, with your parents, and told your brother you loved him, that you are family, and when your parents are gone you two will still be family and that your cherish that bond. Tell him must must have done something in the past that has bothered him, (whether you did or not) and ask his forgiveness. Perhaps because your parents are there, he might feel more disposed to making amends. This my be simplistic, and only a suggestion, but who knows, it just might work. You know your family.
[/quote]

My family has a lot of healing to do. The environment doesn’t exist at this time to allow that to happen. The problem is that my brother expects all these things to happen but he doesn’t contribute to the healing process. My family went through some very hard times in the past and it has created a rift between us all.

I have told him that i was sorry for what he accused me of. The problem is that I can’t even remember the situation.


#12

[quote=Della]Your situation sounds quite similar to my own with my brother (I am older than he is, too) except we never got into a long, nasty argument and I’m a gal not a guy. Anyway, he simply ignored me for years. Finally, I gave him a funny birthday card that broke the ice (not that you should do that, just relating what happened) and sometime later he told me that he had resented me since we were children because our mom and dad constantly held me up as an example for him to follow. They’d say, “She gets such good grades, why can’t you?” “She does what she’s told…” “She’d never sulk like that…” You get the idea. I had no idea they had said such things to him, and I told him so, as well as how I thought it was totally wrong of them to have compared us like that. (Our parents were deceased, so we never got the chance to talk to them about it.) I told him I never expected him to be like me or do the things I did. In short, we had a nice heart to heart talk that cleared up a lot of misunderstandings.

All those years, instead of turning his anger towards our parents, he turned it towards me because as a child he felt powerless to tell them how he felt but he could act out against me, someone more his equal. I rather think this is typical of older/younger sibling rivalry, especially when the parents make the huge mistake of trying to motivate a younger child by throwing up before him all the “perfections” and accomplishments of an older child. From the things you’ve told us and the depth of your brother’s resentment, I’d say this is probably the kind of thing that happened in your family, too.

I suggest you sit down with your parents and ask them if they used you as the “perfect” brother example with your younger brother. And if they did, which it sounds like they did, then try to get them to admit it to your brother and ask his forgiveness for making such a big mistake with him. If they don’t want to do it, then you go to your brother and let him know that you never expected him to be you nor would you want him to be you. Let him know the things you appreciate about him and what things you have always admired in him, because there must be some such things you could share with him.

And pray about it all, of course. I prayed for you and your brother and family this morning as a part of my daily intentions in Morning Prayer. I truly hope you and your family can be open with one another and get this whole thing straightened out. God bless you all.
[/quote]

Perhaps your observations are correct. At one point in the argument he yelled right in the face of my father and my mother. That is in fact when my mother started to cry. He then told her he was sorry. A few moments later he demanded that I do the same. He was trying to get me to say sorry for something that he created. I didn’t understand that. I think that perhaps he needs to become closer with my father and my mother before I can come closer to him and vise versa.

In the short term I think I’m just going to keep my distance from him and pray for him. He seems to think that every good thing I do has an evil motive behind it. When the time is right I will try to do just as you suggest. At this time however, it just seems hopeless. He needs to be left alone to think about his behavior.
At this point no good deed will be accepted. Every success that I have in my life only further angers him. If I buy a nice car that is better then his it upsets him. If I joke about something with him he takes it personal. He is full of pride and self loathing. The more success I have in my life the worse he feels. All I can do is say nothing about my success and failures. The more he knows about my life the more he will resent me or laugh at me. None of that will change unless he comes back to Christ. All I can do is pray for him.

I think I made the right choice to go out with my Jewish friends on Christmas night. When I got home at 3:30 am in the morning I found my brother and my father playing the xbox360.

With that, I’m just going to keep my distance and let him come to me on his own terms.


#13

[quote=JamesG]Perhaps your observations are correct. At one point in the argument he yelled right in the face of my father and my mother. That is in fact when my mother started to cry. He then told her he was sorry. A few moments later he demanded that I do the same. He was trying to get me to say sorry for something that he created. I didn’t understand that. I think that perhaps he needs to become closer with my father and my mother before I can come closer to him and vise versa.

In the short term I think I’m just going to keep my distance from him and pray for him. He seems to think that every good thing I do has an evil motive behind it. When the time is right I will try to do just as you suggest. At this time however, it just seems hopeless. He needs to be left alone to think about his behavior.
At this point no good deed will be accepted. Every success that I have in my life only further angers him. If I buy a nice car that is better then his it upsets him. If I joke about something with him he takes it personal. He is full of pride and self loathing. The more success I have in my life the worse he feels. All I can do is say nothing about my success and failures. The more he knows about my life the more he will resent me or laugh at me. None of that will change unless he comes back to Christ. All I can do is pray for him.

I think I made the right choice to go out with my Jewish friends on Christmas night. When I got home at 3:30 am in the morning I found my brother and my father playing the xbox360.

With that, I’m just going to keep my distance and let him come to me on his own terms.
[/quote]

I completely agree with your plan of action. He’s not at the point where he can face anything from the past. He has to have time to reassess his own life and his relationship with your parents. It took years for my brother and I to come to an understanding, and it will for you and your brother, too. When the time is right to have a good heart to heart with him you will know. You have my prayers and good wishes for you and your family. God bless.


#14

[quote=Della]I completely agree with your plan of action. He’s not at the point where he can face anything from the past. He has to have time to reassess his own life and his relationship with your parents. It took years for my brother and I to come to an understanding, and it will for you and your brother, too. When the time is right to have a good heart to heart with him you will know. You have my prayers and good wishes for you and your family. God bless.
[/quote]

Thank you for your support. I’m glad that there is someone who has went through a similar situation. I have no need to rush things with him. Only time and prayer can heal these wounds.

I have also totally ignored all the insulting things he said about me. I’m not looking for an appology either. Yes, even when one of my own family members yells in my face, threatens me physically, and insults me on all levels I am not wounded. I could just react to it but I won’t lower myself to that level.

I too will pray for your family :slight_smile: God bless you.


#15

[quote=JamesG] Every success that I have in my life only further angers him. If I buy a nice car that is better then his it upsets him. If I joke about something with him he takes it personal…The more success I have in my life the worse he feels. All I can do is say nothing about my success and failures. The more he knows about my life the more he will resent me or laugh at me…
[/quote]

I pulled out what sounds just like my older sister. She was always the trouble maker, instigator, etc and my parents used me and my younger brother as an “example” and then it got worse between her and my mother as my mother worshipped the ground my brother walked (walks) on. It’s very difficult for her to get over her own issues as she projects her insecurities on anything I or my brother does to try to reflect it as we have it perfect, mom and dad gave us everything (she forgets that I had to go to a community college for a semester then go to a second rate college because I couldn’t afford to go to the college that I was initially accepted to because my money had been used to help her pay a $700 phone bill) She compares her life to mine, she whines about how much help my brother gets from our parents, she whines how hard she has it (she’s made so many stupid, repetitive choices that I actually am numb to banging my head against a wall)… blah, blah, blah… She’s even gone so far as to have another child out of wedlock because she saw all the attention the family gave me when I had my first child… seeking that same attention. It all boils down to envy and jealousy. And that’s not a ball you can carry for your brother. Don’t even let him try to pass it to you.

What do I do? Constantly tell my sister when she’s swimming in her pity pool… “I said a prayer for you today and I hope your tomorrow is better than your today.” And I don’t give into her own insecurities. She’s bipolar MD and I can figure out pretty quick which swing she’s on and tailor my own sentances to not give into her problems. It’s frustrating having to live like that, but I can only do what I can and leave the rest to God.

On a good note… it’s strengthened my relationship with my parents, made me realize what I really have been responsible for, and it’s made me closer to Mary and to Christ.


#16

[quote=tamccrackine]I pulled out what sounds just like my older sister. She was always the trouble maker, instigator, etc and my parents used me and my younger brother as an “example” and then it got worse between her and my mother as my mother worshipped the ground my brother walked (walks) on. It’s very difficult for her to get over her own issues as she projects her insecurities on anything I or my brother does to try to reflect it as we have it perfect, mom and dad gave us everything (she forgets that I had to go to a community college for a semester then go to a second rate college because I couldn’t afford to go to the college that I was initially accepted to because my money had been used to help her pay a $700 phone bill) She compares her life to mine, she whines about how much help my brother gets from our parents, she whines how hard she has it (she’s made so many stupid, repetitive choices that I actually am numb to banging my head against a wall)… blah, blah, blah… She’s even gone so far as to have another child out of wedlock because she saw all the attention the family gave me when I had my first child… seeking that same attention. It all boils down to envy and jealousy. And that’s not a ball you can carry for your brother. Don’t even let him try to pass it to you.

What do I do? Constantly tell my sister when she’s swimming in her pity pool… “I said a prayer for you today and I hope your tomorrow is better than your today.” And I don’t give into her own insecurities. She’s bipolar MD and I can figure out pretty quick which swing she’s on and tailor my own sentances to not give into her problems. It’s frustrating having to live like that, but I can only do what I can and leave the rest to God.

On a good note… it’s strengthened my relationship with my parents, made me realize what I really have been responsible for, and it’s made me closer to Mary and to Christ.
[/quote]

I’m starting to wonder if the devil or demons attack the weakest of our family members to get back at us for the good that we are doing. When they realize that there is little they can do to harm us they move on to our other family members.

When I look at my brother now I see a man that is under assult by these evil forces. After the things I heard come out of his mouth I just can’t believe that my brother would say such things. Only a man that is weak in his faith would allow such evil to overcome him.

These are some of the things that came out of his mouth

  1. You deserve it
  2. I am happy that you suffer
  3. You are selfish
  4. You are weak
  5. You need to grow up
  6. You are ugly

In my mind these words only come from satan. These are the kinds of things he says to us. These are the kinds of things he says when he starts to get his a-ss kicked in.

The same might be true for your sister. Say some prayers for her to be protected from evil. Say a prayer for those saints and angels that are there for her.

I don’t think it is enough to say a prayer for them. I think that you have to pray that God does not allow evil to attack them.

The more I encounter these kinds of things the more I realize that there really is a spirtual battle going on. We are attacked on all levels. The more we drive evil away the stronger it comes back. When it can’t attack us anymore because we wear the armor of God it attacks those we love.


#17

I can only hope that it was just satan getting upset that I called him out on his dirty work. Who knows where this festering hate could of ended up had it been allowed to continue.

You see, I realized that something very terrible was building up inside of my brother. So I gave him the chance to let it out and yell his head off. I called satan out and he showed his true colors and his pathetic weakness infront of my whole family. He yelled in my face, and yelled in the face of my mother and father. He cursed out all sorts of evil remarks, but in the end my brother won over him because he could never bring himself to actually punch me. I gave him several chances but satan lost each time.

This is another battle that satan has lost. :slight_smile:

Please pray for my brother so that he can recover from this assult on him.


#18

What brought this on? If my little brother started yelling this stuff at me out of the blue, I’d definitely conclude it was demonic in nature. But in your case I suspect it has more to do with something else in your past. Did you wrong him somehow? Even if you’ve said you’re sorry, it’s no gaurantee that he’ll forgive you…


#19

[quote=montanaman]What brought this on? If my little brother started yelling this stuff at me out of the blue, I’d definitely conclude it was demonic in nature. But in your case I suspect it has more to do with something else in your past. Did you wrong him somehow? Even if you’ve said you’re sorry, it’s no gaurantee that he’ll forgive you…
[/quote]

My brother and I have had a very difficult childhood. My mother and father are not very happy with each other. My mother has an illness and my father was always working hard, but usually lost his job due to layoffs. During the time when my brother and I started to go to college my father had no money and there was very little love in my family. When we needed him most he was too stressed out to be there for us. He isn’t perfect either I guess.

Regardless, I have forgiven all that has happened with out the need for an apology. Those events for me are in the past. I’m trying to make things better for my family. My brother accuses me of doing things that caused him gref 10 years go. I can’t even recall those events enough.

There was time two years ago when I said sorry. But I think he is very lonely and he doesn’t’ go to church now. He is a very angry man.

I think that my father lacks the ability and courage to outwardly show my brother and I love. I have out grown the need for this from my father, but my brother has not. I accept my parents for who they are. I am not embarrassed by them anymore like I used to be when I was a teenager.

I don’t want to place blame on my parents because I love them. Even if my father doesn’t know how to show it I know that he does love me. With that said, I think it would greatly help maters if my father came to my brother and said that he loved him, told him he proud of him, and said sorry for some of things that he did while we went through hard times. I’m strongly considering having a talk with him about this. My mother already has and it didn’t work. My father just won’t do that for some reason.

I can’t take charge of my family either. This really is the job of my father. He should realize that it is his job to be a leader in terms of faith and love.

This all sounds very simple, but the truth is there is a lot of healing that need to take place in my family before such things can begin to happen.


#20

Well, I’m not sure you shouldn’t have just decked him. Or just popped him in the nose. Enough to take the fight out of him and tear up his eyes. It’s good that you were able to restrain yourself, but I don’t know if I could have done it. My brother and I have only barely ever gone down that road because we both know we have the same philosphy of violence: If it looks like it’s going there, get there first, hit hard.

But the one guy I’ve ever actually punched in the face (back in the sixth grade) asked me to be his best man a few years ago. Lol.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.