this has to do with the election of Pope John XXIII (the pope who started vatican II.) According to the theory, Cardinal Joseph Siri was elected and took the name “Gregory XVII” but before he was presented to the people, the Freemasons busted in and threatened Siri telling him that if he did not surreneder his pontificate that they would kill his family, as a result, Siri backed down and they supposedly presented Angelo Roncalli (John XXIII) to the people instead. According to this legend, John XXII was a secret freemason who infiltrated the church and called the second vatican council to change catholic teachings and make it more protestant. This theory is held by some Sedevacantists who believe that we haven’t had a valid pope since Pius XII and that John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I and II and Benedict XVI have all been invalid anti-popes who have usurped the papal seat. IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE FOR THESE CLAIMS ???
Is there any evidence against them:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:
The theory is nonsense.
The claims are a “jumping to conclusions” sort of thing.
What happened was that the chimney over the Sistine Chapel began blowing what seemed to be White Smoke, and this “white” smoke went on for over 5 minutes. Vatican Radio took the cue and announced that a pope had been selected and summoned the people to St. Peter’s (this actually happened), and kept making the announcement for about 20 to 30 minutes. Thousands of people showed up. Some claimed to have seen conclavists at the windows waving to the people below. Then Vatican Radio abruptly announced that they had made a mistake, that a pope had not been selected after all. The crowds left.
It was at this time, the theory alleges, that Siri had been chosen and threatened if he did not renounce his acceptance of the papacy. There is no solid evidence at all for this part.
A couple of days later, Roncalli was presented to the people as
Pope John the 23rd.
There was supposedly a bishop somewhere, who had been at the conclave and saw or was told first-hand what had happened to Siri, and he would neither confirm nor deny the story.
I forget his name, I read an article about it before, but I don’t remember this Cardinal’s name. Anyway, the whole Siri Thesis, as it is sometimes called, is based on these scanty facts which cannot be proven.
You really need a hobby. Please find something more productive to do with your time.
Why on earth would you give any credence at all to a tale such as this?
a lot of people believe this theory, especially those
inclined to sedevacantism.
One reason those people believe it
is that Cardinal Siri himself was ASKED in an interview
if it was true that he had been elected pope in 1958 before
Roncalli (Pope John 23rd) was chosen, and Siri himself
would not deny the claim, saying “I am bound
by the Secret.”
I take that to mean that he was bound, as all conclavists are,
not to reveal ANYTHING that happens or does not happen, during
a conclave. The theory-followers take his refusal to explicitly deny it, as an explicit affirmation…
Oh, good grief. I knew the sedevacantism were schismatics, I didn’t know they were that gullible however.
Yes, a band of ruffians burst into the conclave *unnoticed *and held all the cardinals hostage and forced them to choose a new pope.
Below is a link to a SEDEVACANTIST article about this issue.
The extended quotes from the newspapers are interesting,
but the Dimond Brothers’s “analysis” must be taken
with a grain of salt. They seem to believe that nearly everybody in the world is a heretic except for themselves.
**Yes, a band of ruffians burst into the conclave unnoticed and held all the cardinals hostage and forced them to choose a new pope. **
TOO Funny !! LOL!!
Actually, they don’t believe any ruffians physically entered the conclave, they believe some liberals left the room and made a phone call to some one in the B’Nai B’rith or something like that.
These people are SAD. It’s really, really sad.
But if Siri was deposed why on earth would it take days to elect a replacement?
Surely any Freemasons with any sense would’ve known Blessed John XXIII was their man if he was indeed one of 'em.
They wouldn’t continue with elections and risk a replacement who was as bad for them as Siri, surely?
i do have hobbies, but i heard this theory so i wanted to ask people about it… whats the big deal
Is this a story line for a new Dan Brown book?
No, but it probably should be:rolleyes:
Are you kidding? Like he could come up with something that funny.
But don’t you remeber some lawsuit or other because brown ripped off the plot ideas (i.e. Mary Magdalene idiocies) from another book?
John, you seem to be spending your time on the whacko internet sites instead of here at CAF or in the CA online Library where real Catholic teaching is found.
I might suggest that you subscribe to ZENIT - The World Seen From Rome to get some more factual information on what is really going on in the Catholic Church.
You cannot believe everything that you find on the internet, but there are some very good Catholic sites that you can and should check out. Here’s a list of some of my favorites.
Bible Christian Society
Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Catholic Home Study Service (This would be a real help to you. It sure was to me!)
CHURCH FATHERS: Home
Steve Ray’s Blog
The Mary Foundation
The Vatican Website
thx… i heard the theory from someone and just wanted to ask about it, im not saying i believe it… ill check out the sites thx, god bless
John89, don’t be upset, no one is upset at you, good brother.
As for Dan Brown, I doubt if even HE could
come up with a theory like this.
It’s a question of a few meager facts, mixed with a LOT of rumor,
followed by jumping to all the wrong conclusions.
There is even an entire website called The Pope In Red
that is totally devoted to advancing this theory.
For some folks, it is an obsession.