Church Dogma

I was in confession last week and I asked the priest about double predestination,and he told me that the Catholic Church does not believe in pre-destination when I was in there I did not think about telling him he was wrong . So how should I go about telling him he was wrong and that predestination is a Church dogma in future, confessions?

I would think this topic would be better had over coffee - :coffee: or pizza :pizza: and beer definitely not the Confessional …

Predestination is complex and there is a Catholic teaching and understanding that would differ from a Protestant definition …

Also - I do not think there is a dogmatic position * but there is absolutely a doctrinal position*

I agree wholeheartedly with YADA that the confessional is not the place to debate doctrine with your priest.

You should make an appointment with him for that, if you want to after doing some research on the topic.

In the meantime, an article on Predestinarianism you may find helpful. :slight_smile:

This paragraph from the article may answer your question:

The Canons of the Provincial Synod of Valence (855) may be taken as an expression of the then prevailing views on this subject; they emphasize the fact that God has merely foreseen from eternity and not foreordained the sins of the reprobate, although it remains true that in consequence of their foreseen demerits he has decreed from eternity the eternal punishment of hell (cf. Denzinger, loc. cit., nn. 320-25). It was essentially on this basis that the bishops of fourteen ecclesiastical provinces finally came to an agreement and made peace in the Synod of Tousy held in 860 (cf. Schrörs, “Hinkmar von Reims”, 66 sq., Freiburg, 1884). The teaching of the Middle Ages is generally characterized on the one hand by the repudiation of positive reprobation for hell and of predestination for sin, on the other by the assertion of Divine predestination of the elect for heaven and the co-operation of free will; this teaching was only for a short time obscured by Thomas Bradwardine, and the so-called precursors of the Reformation (Wyclif, Hus, Jerome of Prague, John Wesel).

God foresees the sins of the reprobate, as the passage Della gave explains. And yet He must also cause the act together with the sinner because He is the First Cause, though He does not and cannot cause the act’s deformity.

“Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ His Son, so that He might be the firstborn of many brothers. Those he predestined, He likewise called, those He called He justified, those He justified He in turn glorified.”

Romans 8:29-30

Your confessor reads this passage frequently in the Breviary. Let it go. Best to assume he knows what he is talking about and might be oversimplifying for the sake of getting to the heart of the matter, especially while hearing confessions!

And no, the Church definitely does NOT teach “double-predestination,” which is the doctrine of Calvin.

You have to know what he meant by predestination. Catholics dont believe in predestination as the protestants do. Ex: God has chosen a select few, Im one of the select few, and I can go do what I want, even sin, and still will be saved.

I don’t think that the priest was wrong, you asked him about “double predestination” and he simply shortened it, as many do in casual conversation, to simply “predestination”. You were using the technical term for it and he was using the common term for it, but you were both talking about the same concept.

This^^^. Absolutely correct.

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