Church is a coddler of priests who are pedophiles, homosexuals


#1

The Church does protect the priests in the US who committed sexual crimes by paying billions of dollars instead of handing the offenders to the civil authorities.

How would you defend the Church?


#2

W. Stewart:

I wish the the first part of what showed up when I hit “Quote” had been on your post… It would have at least partially changed my answer as I believe how the American branch of the Roman Catholic Church (esp. in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles) has responded to this has been appalling.

I think Pope Benedict’s answer has been the baum this situation required - He admitted that this was terrible and should never have been allowed to happen, apologized to everyone who felt hurt and dismayed by the scandal and was pastoral with the victims of the abuse and their families, and he let the Bishops know that the old way of doing business wasn’t acceptable in any way, shape, manner or form. and, At the same time, he diagnosed the problem as originating from the failure to preach the Gospel and teach the Faith in its fulness and to demand of Bishops that they be shepherds and not administrators.

I also believe the Vatican’s insistance that only those homosexuals who’ve demonstrated that they have lived a chaste and celebate lifestyle for 3 years before entering seminary and the insistance on continuing chastity and celebacy during the period of seminary formation will also help to solve the “homosexual” priest problem and help to encourage mature heterosexual men to enter the seminaries in this country again. The Bishops and Seminaries which have excluded many orthodox heterosexuals just won’t be able to get away with that in the environment created by the Papal Decree (Not even “The Pink Palace”).

I really must agree with the idea that most of this happened because the Church temporarily lost its way and stopped preaching the Gospel, teaching the fullness of the Faith, insisting on faithfulness to the Magisterium of the Church and obedience to legitamate authority. I also must agree that Bishops became administrators and stopped being shepherds, which meant they became lttle better than hirelings who run and hide, leaving the sheep to be slaughtered, when the wolves come.

Though this was not unique to the Church, because of what transpired in the previous paragraph, something that afflicted society also afflicted the Church. And, Because of the affects of the above, members within the hierarchy didn’t have an effective answer, but instead relied on secular psychologist and psychiatrists.

The effects have been disastrous. Not only have pre-teen and young teen-aged (9-15 yr. old) boys been victimized by often homosexual priests (teen-aged girls aged 13-17 by a few of the rest), but parishes victimized by Bishops who then transfered these perpetraters to them without bothering to inform them of their history of abuse. And, innocent priests spat on and called “child molesters” and treated as perpetrators and guilty until proven innocent.

Remember, the sxual abuse of pre-adolescent boys was NOT and is NOT unique to the Catholic Church, but because it suited the media’s Pro-Death agenda, the media misrepresented not only the extent of this problem in our society, but who the victims were. Instead of telling us the truth, which was terrible enough, the media, knowing how mothers and fathers would respond to threats to YOUNG CHILDREN, lied and told us an even more terrible tale of child molestation. As I said, the truth was terrible enough, but people wouldn’t be spitting on priests and calling them “child molesters” if they knew most of those victimized were boys between the ages of 9-15 and not little children.

We’ve paid a terrible price for Bishops who refused to allow the Gospel to be preached, the Faith to be taught or obedience and faithfulness to be insisted on. We’ve also paid an even more terrible price for Bishops who forgot their primary obligation was to protect and feed the Lord’s sheep, not protect priest perpetrators from the Laws of the Land. On top of those, we’ve paid the price of allowing the media to claim that this was limited to the Church and then to lie about the extent of the problem within the church and who the victims were.

I know and understand the Church must do as Pope Benedict XVI has started to do and make this right that the hierarchy in the U.S. needs to do as Cardinal Pell in Australia has done working with Law Enforcement and the Prosecutor’s Office to farret out and prosecute sexual predators within the Catholic Church in Australia, but I also believe we have to answer the media and insist that they tell the truth.

I hope this begins to answer your question.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael


#3

We don’t. It was a terrible mishandling of the cases, and is inexcusable, and the Pope himself has expressed his disappointment over the whole affair.


#4

W. Stewart:

Allow me a second shot, because I realized the last post was a little winy and blamed the press too much…

I believe how the American branch of the Roman Catholic Church (esp. in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles) has responded to this has been utterly appalling. Our Lord had something to say on this issue:

But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Matthew 18:6 - Douay-Rheims Challoner 1899 American Edition.

And whosoever shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me; it were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Mark 9:41 - Douay-Rheims Challoner
and,
It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2 - Douay-Rheims Challoner

I think Pope Benedict XVI’s answer was a good start - He admitted that this was terrible and should never have been allowed to happen, apologized to everyone who felt hurt and dismayed by the scandal and was pastoral with the victims of the abuse and their families, and he let the Bishops know that the old way of doing business wasn’t acceptable in any way, shape, manner or form. and, At the same time, he diagnosed the problem as originating from the failure to preach the Gospel and teach the Faith in its fulness and to demand of Bishops that they be shepherds and not administrators.

I also believe the Vatican’s insistance that only those homosexuals who’ve demonstrated that they have lived a chaste and celebate lifestyle for 3 years before entering seminary and the insistance on continuing chastity and celebacy during the period of seminary formation will also help to solve the “homosexual” priest problem and help to encourage mature heterosexual men to enter the seminaries in this country again. The Bishops and Seminaries which have excluded many orthodox heterosexuals just won’t be able to get away with that in the environment created by the Papal Decree (Not even “The Pink Palace”).

I really must agree with the idea that most of this happened because the Church temporarily lost its way and stopped preaching the Gospel, teaching the fullness of the Faith, insisting on faithfulness to the Magisterium of the Church and obedience to legitamate authority. I also must agree that Bishops became administrators and stopped being shepherds, which meant they became lttle better than hirelings who run and hide, leaving the sheep to be slaughtered, when the wolves come.

Because of what transpired in the previous paragraph, something that afflicted society also afflicted the Church. And, Because of the affects of the above, members within the hierarchy didn’t have an effective answer, but instead relied on secular psychologist and psychiatrists.

The effects have been disastrous. Not only have pre-teen and young teen-aged (9-15 yr. old) boys been victimized by often homosexual priests (teen-aged girls aged 13-17 by a few of the rest), but parishes victimized by Bishops who then transfered these perpetraters to them without bothering to inform them of their history of abuse. And, innocent priests spat on and called “child molesters” and treated as perpetrators and guilty until proven innocent.

We’ve paid a terrible price for Bishops who refused to allow the Gospel to be preached, the Faith to be taught or obedience and faithfulness to be insisted on. We’ve also paid an even more terrible price for Bishops who forgot their primary obligation was to protect and feed the Lord’s sheep, not protect priest perpetrators from the Laws of the Land. On top of those, we’ve paid the price of allowing the media to claim that this was limited to the Church and then to lie about the extent of the problem within the church and who the victims were.

I know and understand the Church must do as Pope Benedict XVI has started to do and make this right, that the hierarchy in the U.S. needs to do as Cardinal Pell in Australia has done working with Law Enforcement and the Prosecutor’s Office to farret out and prosecute sexual predators within the Catholic Church in Australia, but I also believe we have to answer the media and insist that they tell the truth.

I believe that Bishops who coorperated in and assisted in perpetrating in this evil must be made to account for it, either in civil courts or ecclesiastical courts. The Vatican is a Sovereign nationa and has the right to hold courts and operate prisons… I see no reason the Vatican shouldn’t assert jurisdiction and try the worst of the Bishops (citing of the prisons could be only God knows where)…

I hope this begins to answer your question.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael


#5

Thank you for the replies.

My next question is if the Church (I mean the hierarchy starting from the Pope down to the bishops) does not condone these sexual offenses, why do not these leaders hand over the offenders to the civil authorities for trial and prosecution?


#6

I think they have. If I remember correctly, the notorious priest from Boston went to prison and subsequently died (was killed?) there.


#7

Any link or source?


#8

boston.com/news/daily/23/mass_geoghan.htm

But back to your original assertion, you have an extremely incorrect view of the U.S. criminal justice system. You seem to think that one can pay a lot of money to prevent somebody from being arrested. You seem to think that a criminal matter can be turned into a civil matter at the whim of the defendant. Trust me, if the police and/or DA believe you are guilty of a criminal offense on which they can get a conviction, they will arrest you, priest or no priest.


#9

Because the civil authorities do not need any such handing over. They can arrest people without the permission of the Church. The Church in America is not some sovereign nation.


#10

Ahhh someones been reading Michael Rose. Pink Palace?

Mundelein?


#11

Google John Geoghan. You will get about a billion hits regarding this widely publicised case.

Oh by the way…welcome back to earth.


#12

I would say that certain people (or networks of people) in the Church have been “coddlers” of pedophile priests, but the Church is far bigger and better than them.

The bottom line, as always, is what does the Church teach? Those who go against this teaching are not properly representing the Church and what she stands for.


#13

My next question is if the Church (I mean the hierarchy starting from the Pope down to the bishops) does not condone these sexual offenses, why do not these leaders hand over the offenders

They are priests not dogs. Its not like the church keeps them in some sort of compound. Do you mean turn them into the police?

Furthermore. You do realize a very large number of these cases are over 50 years old.

TO (as you put it) “HAND” over these offenders would require a shovel and a trip to the cemetary.


#14

The incidents of abuse were horrific and have been dealt with. The result of the incidents has been the implementation of stricter rules in regard to children in parishes across the country.
Nevertheless, it feeds anti-Catholicism. Quoting Richard Nixon: “you have given our enemies a sword”.


#15

I would correct the notion that the Church is somehow guilty or responsible; rather it is individuals within the hierarchy who by either turning a blind eye or through ignorance of the severity of the situation(s), have (had) allowed this tragedy to continue.

Second, it would be up to the victims and the criminal system to charge the involved priests with crimes, not the church. If such a crime or crimes were learned about through confession, it would be difficult if not impossible to break the confessional seal by reporting them. If it were a repeated confessed offense, I think there would be a duty to protect the children involved, but I don’t know the particulars of how that’s done in terms of maintaining confessional secrecy.

Third, as has been said, the civil and criminal matters are two different things in a legal sense, so “instead of” isn’t a correct assertion.

Personally, methinks there was a combination of factors, ignorance of the mindset of the priests involved as well as willfull cover-up by some of the bishops. The ignorance is somewhat defensible, the cover-ups are not.

It’s been done. Difficulty may lie in how these crimes were discovered, in confession or not. :shrug: I don’t know that much about how far the sanctity of the confession can be stretched to protect against future actions on the part of the confessee.

Again, personally, I think that a majority of Catholics would be in favor of criminal punishment of those convicted of such crimes, as well as removal from contact from children i.e. give them a desk job for those who don’t get jail time.

A sad situation for all involved directly, and for us who are indirectly involved simply by being Catholic. :frowning:


#16

Because the civil authorities do not need any such handing over. They can arrest people without the permission of the Church. The Church in America is not some sovereign nation.

I would ask the OP this:

If you Dad or Son came up to you and confessed to you that he had done some evil crime and was sorry for it. Would you turn your Dad or Son in to the civil authorities?

Also, it has not always been the Clergy covering up for Clergy. The lay leaders have also played a hand in the manner, probably akin to the analogy I gave in the above question.

If my Priest ever committed such a heinous act, there would be parishoners that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that would do their best to keep it under wraps.

For some keeping it under wraps would mean ‘We are family, we protect each other regardless’


#17

The Rite of Sodomy by Randy Engel sheds much light of the homosexual nature of the crisis. To make a long story short, there were homosexual bishops who gained control and influence in the church bureauacracy. They promoted and aided and abetted an entrenched homosexual clergy that was well in place by Vatican II. Two of the major villains: William Cardinal O’Connell and Francis Cardinal Spellman.

Another villain was Alfred Kinsey. When it came to “rehabilitating” known pedophiles, bishops, most naively I think, turned to Kinsey and his disciples, with disastrous results.

In short, the wolves were in the sheepfold and running it for a long time. Thanks be to God we got rid of some of the them, Weakland for example. But guys like Mahoney are still in place.


#18

This statement isn’t true at the present time. Now there is a no tolerance attitude.

Where this was true in the past, it is indefensible. Except that in some cases the bishop sent the priest to be ‘rehabilitated’ and believed the psychologist’s claim that this had been achieved. In the other cases, where bishops acted to protect the priest and the church’s reputation at the expense of the person abused and those who could suffer in the future, there can be no excuse.

It should be noted that this isn’t only a Catholic problem. In public education, teachers who were accused of abuse were forced to leave the school district but no charges were made and they just moved to another school district or another state.

In the past, both in institutions and in families, sexual abuse was covered up more than it is today.


#19

Guys, thank you for all your replies. The statements that I presented were just quotations from non-Catholic individuals. I apologize if I created the understanding that those were my own.


#20

Just as there are good people in virtually ALL religions, so are there evil people in all. Believe me, the heads of all religions do what they can to hide that evil while trying to figure out how to deal with such serious problems, fearing scandal will send their parishioners scurrying.

The inability of the Catholic church to come to a speedy conclusion about how to handle this created twice as much harm and scandal than was necessary.

Man isn’t perfect. Churches aren’t either. The Catholic church, in its attempts to promote the idea that priests shouldn’t marry because it detracted from religion, found itself in a most terrible and shocking bind when it realized it had unknowingly become a lure for those who had anything but spiritual interests.

While the church didn’t handle things as quickly and appropriately as it should have, it has hopefully since learned the importance of SPEED in handling such situations, devising ways of identifying people with these tendencies before promoting them to positions of responsibility, and dealing with them PRONTO!

I once heard it said that a the best leaders are those who not only make good decisions but also “QUICK” ones.


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