Church of Sweden to Consecrate 1st Female Archbishop

Well, I would question that first on the fact that she is a woman. That, too, is not part of Lutheranism, not scripturally or confessionally.
I guess my answer is, I don’t know.

Jon

Indeed.

Here’s a sobering thought: when people and Synods who claim to be “Lutheran” are measured to the Confessions, it really shows how few of us remain. Whether it’s the Crypto-Calvinists, empty-message Church Growthers, Law-be-gone Pietists or the Secularists - the attacks pay no mind to synodical or even denominational lines, and keep “causing these little ones to stumble.” :frowning:

The spinning in the grave would electrify all of Wittenburg.

Jon

I dont know much about the short summer of Wisconsin, but I Guess his swim would be quite fast, yes.

I have to say that I feel sorry for all of you Lutherans now a days. My mother are a Lutheran and complains about how their “church” are being abused all the time.
It seems like the way Luther wanted it is pretty far from how its being run now a days.
We Live in Norway and as we speak they discuss wheter or not they are to allow gay mariage in their “church” and most of the serious Lutherans I know hate this development (of course?)

The Papacy dosent seem quite so bad now, dose it? :slight_smile:

God Bless!

=HeadingBackHome;11326926]I dont know much about the short summer of Wisconsin, but I Guess his swim would be quite fast, yes.

Hard to know.

I have to say that I feel sorry for all of you Lutherans now a days. My mother are a Lutheran and complains about how their “church” are being abused all the time.
It seems like the way Luther wanted it is pretty far from how its being run now a days.
We Live in Norway and as we speak they discuss wheter or not they are to allow gay mariage in their “church” and most of the serious Lutherans I know hate this development (of course?)

Fortunately, there are still those synods, mostly in the ILC, like the Missouri Synod here in the US, and SELK in Germany, that remain confessional.

The Papacy dosent seem quite so bad now, dose it? :slight_smile:

Certainly a consideration, if our synod drifts away from the confessions

Jon

There are some troubling questions regarding the new archbishop of Sweden. I don’t know if these two articles are biased and distort Antje Jackelén beliefs but if true than the selection for Primate is a big mistake. The bishops of Sweden were instrumental in bring apostolic succession to Lutherans in north America. Archbishop Jackelén may create real problems for other Lutherans and Anglicans in full-communion with the Church of Sweden.

anglicanink.com/article/belief-virgin-birth-optional-extra-new-swedish-archbishop-declares

d-intl.com/2013/10/15/swedish-archbishop-prefers-allah/?lang=en

If Luther was alive, this nonsense would have never happened. He would have put a stop to the ELCA going liberal as well. He also would restore the Catholic parts to the Evangelical Catholic Church.

Or could just be a dead duck.

Edit: Or not dead, just pinin’ for the fjords… :smiley:

I don’t know how accurate it is, but the following article points to more problems in the church of Sweden than a bishop who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth. I’d be interested in input by those of you who are familiar with the situation in Scandinavian countries. Is this article a fair representation?

livingchurch.org/church-sweden-nonbelievers

Let me put it this way: there is undoubtedly good reason that the Ethiopian Mekane Yesus church (whose continuing growth will soon make it the largest Lutheran body in the world) resigned its position in the Lutheran World Federation, and broke pulpit/altar fellowship with the Swedes and the ELCA. It is now seeking fellowship with more confessional Synods, including the LCMS and LCC.

The decay in many LWF bodies has made them, in general, unrecognizable to Lutheranism.

I attached this sobering article written by a Lutheran priest that chronicles the change in the Church of Sweden. touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=17-09-032-f

How eerily the author’s story parallels a certain ecclesiastical community in America… :frowning:

The issue of women’s ordination is both pivotal and illustrative. “Those who do not approve of the ordination of women must leave the Church of Sweden,” Bishop Caroline Krook of Stockholm announced in a newspaper interview, and the political and religio-political establishment and the mass media, with few exceptions, echoed her.

Typical was an editorial by Ulla Johansson for the Christian Socialist magazine Broderskap (Brotherhood): “Throw out the church hooligans. . . . The Church of Sweden has to stop talking drivel. It goes without saying that those who cannot think of working together with a woman or ordain a woman should not hold an official office in the Church of Sweden.” In an interview in a diocesan magazine, Rolf Forslin, a deacon and leading church politician, was equally blunt: “If it doesn’t suit them, let them start their own business; one has to be hard on those opposing the ordination of women.”

If you want to stay, you have to obey the innovators, against tradition and against your conscience. If you don’t obey, you have to go—that is the plight of traditional Christians in Sweden. Of course, I cannot compare our situation with what Christians are facing in places like Sudan, who often have to make a choice between denying their faith in Jesus Christ and being killed. I would not use the word martyr in reference to us.

Nevertheless, in the struggle for the traditional Christian faith going on in Sweden, those who try to uphold it are more than unwelcome; they have been marginalized systematically for decades. Together with them I have seen and bear witness to all the small steps leading to where the Church of Sweden is now, without being able to stop it.

But the article says this.

“The Church of Sweden as it appears in the days of Archbishop Hammar has probably as little to do with the Christian belief in a historic sense as, let us say, the politics of [the Social Democratic] Prime Minister Göran Persson has to do with Karl Marx.” I do not think it could be said more clearly.

According to some people I suppose this means that the Church of Sweden is a fanatic church busy burning witches and persecuting non-believers all day while loudly singing psalms. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry, sorry, only meant as a joke. On a more serious note, the problems they have today comes from, in my opinion, the fact that they were the church of the state which introduced them to an unhealthy mix of religion and worldliness the moment the church was founded. Things had turned bad even before the last century, not to the extent of today though… and as a Catholic I obviously believe the problems began with the reformation :stuck_out_tongue: even so I can of course see the difference between the Church of Sweden now compared to how it once was and it would be good if they returned to traditional Christianity. But unfortunately I don’t think that is very likely to happen. As this article shows some traditional Christians still belong to their church though.

Really appreciate a poster from Sweden!

What I don’t understand is that once the Riksdag [parliament] stopped appointing the archbishop, the Church was free to elect a Primate like Nathan Söderblom, the father of the modern ecumenical movement. Francis is bringing Christ to the poor while the Church of Sweden is reaching out to Islam. :confused:

Well, if she likes Mohammed, does she like the way he treated women and the way poor Muslem women are treated in Islamic countries? Even the Koran teaches the virgin birth. This is really an odd statement and shows the disconnect of it all.

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