church pastor says I can't kneel


#1

I go to mass every morning where everyone stands during the consecration. I always kneel. recently, I asked if I could be a lector one day a week. At first, the pastor said yes, but a week later, he said, if I wanted to read, I would have to set a good example by standing like everyone else. When I said, I would rather not read. I was accused of wanting to be holier than the parish.

I am very sad. :frowning:


#2

Kendy,

I am very sorry to hear about this. Are there kneelers at this parish?


#3

Are you being specific about the exact time you want to kneel? Between the Holy, Holy, Holy and the Great Amen, during the Consecration? Or are you also trying to kneel after the Lamb of God and he is saying not to?


#4

Which rite is this? I know that in the Maronite rite, there is no kneeling and if you were to kneel it would, indeed, be strange.


#5

Something my pastor mentioned one day at Mass is that the Mass is the community at prayer, and part of that is that our postures should be as a community. If one person does things “their way” while the rest of the congregation does something else, they are setting themselves apart and disrupting the sense of community. And he mentioned that it takes humility to go along with the rest of the church rather than having the Mass be done your way.

I sympathize with those who want to kneel when everyone else stands. If it’s honestly done out of piety, then perhaps it’s best to continue. But I think it’s necessary to question whether it’s done out of pride. Is there a feeling that there’s something wrong with everyone else and you’ll show them how it ought to be done? Have you honestly considered humbling yourself to go along with everyone else rather than making yourself an example? Do you, perhaps, feel a little more holy than those other people who don’t kneel with you?


#6

Correct, and we can support this idea with Scripture itself, in the Heavenly Liturgy as described in Reveletions:

4:10-11
the twenty-four elders fall down before the one who sits on the throne and worship him, who lives forever and ever. They throw down their crowns before the throne, exclaiming:
“Worthy are you, Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things; because of your will they came to be and were created.”

So we can see, they all did the same thing, and said the same thing.


#7

I’m sorry you are sad. This is going to sound harsh, please prepare yourself. Will you do as directed by your pastor and act accordingly with the rest of the community? Or will you keep doing things the way you see fit in spite of his clear direction?

I am sorry you are sad. No joking, no sarcasm.


#8

If this is a Catholic Church of the Latin Rite, where we are required to kneel (in the United States and in a number of other countries) from after the Sanctus until after the Great Amen, and the priest wants everyone to stand instead, then he is being disobedient to the Church.

I would have responded to the priest that standing when the Church requires kneeling is not being a good example and I would rather obey the Church than a disobedient priest.


#9

If she is kneeling when it is called for in the GIRM, then she is not “doing things the way you see fit”, she is obeying the highest liturgical authority in the Church.


#10

Exactly my opinion! :thumbsup:


#11

You could check liturgical law in this matter, which says to kneel during the eucharistic prayer, in the Latin rite that is, by going onto google.com and typing GIRM (which stands for General Instruction for the Roman missal. Your pastor is requiring you to violate the law of the Church. In view of the unpleasantness involved, I in my own case, would go to another parish, since this would be too disturbing when going to mass there.
Luckily, it seems, such litrugical abuses are on the way out since younger priests are more orthodox.
The Church has insisted that unity in the Church means first of all unity with the universal Church, not unity with the practices of a particular parish, whether they are right or wrong.


#12

Chruch Law mandates that we kneel at certain points in the Liturgy.

It would not be a prudent thing to defy Rome in favor of the priest’s faulty instructions.

I’m sorry that it would cost you the ministry of Lector, but such is a small price to pay for humble obedience to the Church.


#13

yes.


#14

between the holy holy and “amen.”


#15

My understanding is that the Canadian Bishops have chosen to stand.

The OP didn’t say where the parish was.

Jim


#16

The church says we are supposed to kneel. The priest has told the parish not to. I think he’s putting us a difficult position.

Kendy


#17

illinois


#18

Have you made an appointment to speak to him concerning this? Or has that already happened and that was the opening post here? Speak to him, if that doesn’t resolve the issue speak to the Bishop.

Side bar: Do most of ya all find your pastors difficult to speak with? It seems the vast majority of the issues brought up here in this forum would be easily resolved by just talking to the pastor of the parish.


#19

Following a pastor’s direction if he is clearly wrong is NOT acting accordingly, especially if you know that he is wrong. This is probably the biggest reason for Liturgical Abuses: “following the crowd” because so many Catholics don’t know their GIRM.

No priest can compel you to disregard the GIRM, sorry. Even if it is for “building community”.

It reminds me of a quote from A Man For All Seasons when Saint Thomas More was asked to sign an oath as his friends had. He replied:

“And when we die, and you are sent to heaven for doing your conscience, and I am sent to hell for not doing mine, will you come with me, for fellowship?”


#20

[quote=Tedster]Following a pastor’s direction if he is clearly wrong is NOT acting accordingly, especially if you know that he is wrong. This is probably the biggest reason for Liturgical Abuses: “following the crowd” because so many Catholics don’t know their GIRM.
[/quote]

and for the rest that taken exception to my post (# 3) … I have no problems admitting my wrongs and faults. When you are as wrong as I am as often as I am, it’s fairly easy to do. If this situation is a violation of the GIRM then it needs to be addressed. It seems this maybe one of those times where there is a real problem. But what seems and what is is still unknown. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But a discussion with the priest should take place first, and if the matter is still unresolved the next in line would be the Bishop, yes?


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