Church Security & Legally Armed Parishioners

I was just curious about the parishioners thoughts. If more parishioners preferred that other parishioners did not carry.

I was not addressing the Bishop’s role and if it was a crime if not.

I do not want people toting weapons into Church. God is the only security that I need.

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I can only speak for myself. I’m fortunate to live near a diocesan boundary, so if my bishop changed his mind and allowed guns in church, I’d switch parishes to the other diocese.

I think a pastor would also have a say.

It would probably depend on how the law is written.

The pastor isn’t the property owner.

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Not concerned about the law, but we owe obedience to our pastor with regards to parish matters. In most parishes, parishioners would not be okay with people carrying a gun in church if the pastor specifically said not to. I don’t think most parishioners would be as concerned about the legal aspects .

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If a person is carrying a gun concealed, the other parishioners probably wouldn’t know.

Should we poll the parish on whether or not women should be allowed to wear perfume, or whether people should be allowed to wear sandals, or carry a pocket knife, or pepper spray, or have children at mass that cause disruptions.

Not certain I want parish wide polls on any of the above subjects. If someone isn’t breaking the law or violating church policy, not really anyone else’s business how they choose to attend mass.

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In our dioceses, the Bishop has asked that parishioners not open carry during mass. Both open and concealed carry are allowed in our state.

I am not a fan of open carry, but if I were, I would respect the Bishop’s wishes and carry concealed during mass. It would just be the right thing to do, and not a huge personal sacrifice in the change in carry method.

If the Bishop asked that parishioners not carry at all, I would expect the parish to post the appropriate signage to disallow people from carrying either concealed or openly. This signage is not very aesthetic, so it would require that the parish take that into consideration before making their decision. If they did so and placed the appropriate signage, I would either choose to obey the law and go unarmed to mass, or choose to go to another parish which hadn’t made the decision to ban the carrying of guns into their property.

Most states have laws that allow the property owner or someone with apparent authority to make the decision.

The pastor would certainly fall into the category of “apparent authority”.

Lethal force must be met with lethal force. To force me to respond to gunfire with my fists is to deprive me of my right to be able to defend myself.

Hyperventilated hyperbole doesn’t serve you well.

The right to keep and bear arms is a pre-political right that the Constitution recognises and protects; it is not a right granted to us by it as if it could be legitimately taken away by any government.

You would never feel threatened by me carrying a concealed firearm, because it’s concealed. And if (God forbid!) I had to use it, afterwards you’d be very relieved that I was able to. Not to put too fine a point on it, but your unreasonable fears do not trump my fundamental right to be able to defend myself or my responsibility to defend you if necessary.

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In the Founding Fathers’ opinion and/or in your opinion.

Gun ownership and carrying is not a God-given right and the CC has never considered it a God-given right, nor does it condemn it in countries which heavily restrict gun ownership. The Church has a grave obligation to denounce laws that are intrinsically evil.

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Carrying a gun is not a fundamental human right, it is a right assigned to you under your constitution. I have no problem with private individuals owning guns but the US second amendment is not some item to display to show the US is superior to all other states. It merely has a different outlook on the matter than others and yet again other states differ widely on gun laws.

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You are mistaken. I suggest that you make the same careful study of the source documents that I have, rather than relying on secondary and tertiary sources that misrepresent the words of the Founders and the relevant Supreme Court cases. . . .

I leave you with this quote from Scott v. Sanford, in which the Court placed the right to keep and bear arms squarely within what are universally understood to be fundamental human rights that no government can legitimately do away with:
“For if they were so received, and entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens, it would exempt them from the operation of the special laws and from the police [60 U.S. 393, 417] regulations which they considered to be necessary for their own safety. It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognised as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, singly or in companies, without pass or passport, and without obstruction, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law for which a white man would be punished; and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went.”

Your unreasonable fears mean you have to carry a gun. We don’t have those fears, so we don’t carry a gun.

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I am not an American, your constitution is not mine. Also, please in bear use of manners when conversing other people is a requisite of the forum.

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It is not ill-mannered to point out that you don’t know what you’re talking about, and that there’s no way to intelligently discuss any issue until you do the simple work of correcting that as I have.

Good day.

It’s unreasonable to know that people sometimes do bad things? That gives you even less reason to fear that my being able to defend myself will cause you any harm. And as it is, you have no reason at all to fear it.

Again, I see no point in responding further to irrational comments like the one you just made. Good day.

The ignore function has recently been re-introduced to the forums. It is very useful at times.

I think what you are misunderstanding is that people are not asking about U.S. legal source documents. They’re asking you to provide Church documentation that carrying a gun specifically is a natural or moral right.

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