Church Security & Legally Armed Parishioners

Not always.
Read the OP again.

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Do you mean leave the United States entirely? Or move to a safer part of the United States? I am unable to consider moving from where I live for at least five more years (child custody), and even then, it means selling your house, packing up, going someplace you’ve never lived before — someplace that may have problems of its own — starting all over, and on top of that, living with the knowledge that you got run out of your home and your city because, in a very real way, the thugs and gangsters ran you out. They took over. They won. Or that would be my slant on it anyway. (I am retired with an income, so I don’t have to worry about finding a job, though I may return to work part-time once we are no longer homeschooling.)

I live in a somewhat high-crime area, i.e., the metropolitan area taken as a whole, and the main drag a few blocks from my house. You always have in the back of your mind that something could happen, but you “keep calm and carry on”, don’t go out late at night unless it’s absolutely necessary (it is not such a problem if you don’t leave your car, such as going to a drive-through for food, or if you go to places you’re familiar with), keep awareness of your surroundings, and project self-confidence. Being male, tall, big, head practically shaven bald, and dressing in such a way as to make it appear you are more formidable than you actually are, is helpful. (I have the ability to do this, obviously not everyone does.)

I hope that there are not too many people carrying guns and automatic weapons in church during services. Perhaps there should be armed security guards and
everyone should be screened for weapons before entering the church. Maybe i am wrong here, but innocent people being killed in church by terrorists is not something that I like to think about.

I meant precisely what I said. No more, no less.
If you are living in fear, and have to carry a gun with to alleviate this fear, something is wrong.

The original post said precisely that.

Now I am kind of curious…just what is going on in that church that makes her feel so unsafe?
Is this church in some kind of warzone where we can expect someone to jump out and shoot at any moment?

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Catholic churches are open to the general public, and anyone can just walk in and attend Mass. Unless it is a very small parish in a rural area, town, or village, it is not a case of “everyone knows everyone else”, and if it’s a large, downtown urban parish, you generally have no idea who 99% of the people at Mass even are — you might see them and know distinctive faces or characteristics, but that’s all you know. Everyone just kind of blurs together. Any criminal or mentally ill person can come in, sit down, and you have no idea. If they have some kind of mischief in mind, you won’t know until the moment it happens.

When I go to Mass, the way things have become anymore, yes, I have way in the back of my mind that something could happen. I can’t worry myself to death or paralyze myself on account of it. You just have to press forward. Life has to go on.

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So this causes fear such that one must carry a firearm?

True.
But statistics say the incidence is extremely unlikely.
Is this unlikely scenario the cause of such fear?

But are you afraid?

What you describe is being prepared.
What the original post described was fear.

I’ll just put it this way — I have no problem with someone else in the congregation carrying. I’d prefer they did, than that they did not. And if something does happen, whether they are carrying legally or not is going to be the absolute last thing on my mind.

I’m not, myself. Fear is something I typically don’t do. Having something in the back of your mind is not fear.

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Agreed.
But I am not in favor of someone disobeying the proper authorities in the matter.
The priest has not provided permission, the bishop likewise has denied the priest the ability to grant permission.
It doesn’t matter how well trained or what type of permits, the bishop has spoken in this matter.
That church is off limits to carry. Concealed or otherwise.

Then they’d better have ushers who carry (at least some of them). That might be the best scenario.

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I would just CC anyways. I don’t CC but sure wouldn’t mind if people were doing so at Mass.

Who actually had authority to make the call anyways? Legally it’d be the property owner. Do diocese own the property or does the parish? If the parish then who legally makes the call, pastor or ‘parish board’?

Honestly, and I don’t mean to be overly offensive, that was exactly what went through my mind as I read the first post in this thread… As they say, only in America…

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I think so. Either that or hired armed security guards to protect the innocent while in church. Guns and semi-automatic weapons are too easy to get for almost anyone and there have been too many innocent people killed in mass shootings in the USA. The politicians can’t help you against domestic terrorism.

You’re military and you really believe this?

Perhaps this is a key issue.

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That would place you in direct disobedience.

The Bishop. And he has spoken.

The priest is final authority for what goes on during Mass. And he is subject to the Bishop, who again, has spoken on the matter.

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I think we need to reasonably look at the actual statistics about this before considering delivery of an ultimatum to the Church.
Such an ultimatum is a serious overstep of any authority the parishioners have in the matter.
Unless they can likewise back it with evidence to show such security measures are reasonable, I could not agree.

OK, vz, so the guy or gal next to you is secretly carrying a weapon to mass and is in “direct disobedience” to a bishop or priest.

I guess when a nutcase brings an assault rifle into church and starts shooting, you can jump up and say, “hey you! Stop that! You’re in direct disobedience to the bishop!”

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With mention of lightening strikes a long time ago in this thread:
According to the NWS Storm Data, over the last 30 years (1984-2013) the U.S. has averaged 51 reported lightning fatalities per year. Only about 10% of people who are struck by lightning are killed, leaving 90% with various degrees of disability.
(Notice it reports fatalities as 51 being 10%, so 510 strikes per year). Looks like 10.2 people PER state, PER year being hit.
I believe we need to spend more time on “lightening strike” regulation, and laws to prevent this. (Extreme sarcasm)
Dominus vobiscum

This non-American thought the same, tbh.

I think I will never understand the relationship some Americans have with their guns. From my European perspective, what is really frightening is the whole idea of concealed carry permits. :woman_shrugging:

And particularly so in churches, which traditionally are “sanctuaries” - safe places meant to be preserved from weapons and violence, even from the forceful execution of the law.

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Might not work. If the shooter is not Catholic he is not bound by the rule of the church. grin
Dominus vobiscum

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