Church under attack in the news

There are without a doubt many very good priests and I am not condemning these. But you miss my point. I was taught and devoutly believed priests were very special people, living lives far above that lived by the rest of us. That their sanctification and their life of daily sacrament, prayer and service to God, their holding of the blessed communion in their hands, their ability to change bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus, their ability to baptize, forgive sins and perform all of the rest of the sacraments made them better than the rest of us. And I do not mean this in any derogatory sense, I believed, by the grace of God, they were better than us.

Turns out the pedophile priests have proven to me that priests are not better than us, they have the same faults, the same weaknesses; they are just regular men. Now, it is not my conclusion alone. The church has stated these men are just human beings, the church has, in part, defended the priesthood by stating priests have a better record than average in not abusing children. With this, the church, in effect, is saying to judge priests by the same standards you judge everyone else.

So, I guess I am painting with a broad brush and lumping all priests together, but not as pedophiles but as men with the same weaknesses and ability to fight theses weaknesses as everyone else. The sacred special status I held them as a child is wrong, they are not the men I was led to believe they were.

If priests who must be awash in grace with their participation in the sacraments on the average of twice daily, with their daily prayer schedule, with their lives dedicated to helping the sick and the poor, haven’t sufficient grace to overcome sin, then why should they be held up as any more “holy” than the average man?

And to answer a previous question as to how the action of these priests calls into question church doctrine (CCC para quoted):
Grace:
(2549) prevail over the seductions of pleasure and power.
(2018) man turns toward God and away from sin
(2082) What God commands he makes possible by his grace.
(21011) ensures the supernatural quality of our acts

Occasionally we are given the opportunity to test church doctrine against results. I have provided several quotes from the catechism demonstrating one of the major purposes of grace is as an aid against sin. There are many more as well as a multitude of sections defining sacraments and prayer as the major sources of grace. Priests receive the sacraments at least daily. They pray much more than the average Christian. Priests through their ordination and daily life receive far more grace than the average catholic, yet we see it did not help the priests inclined to molest children. If grace doesn’t work for these folks, why should it work for the rest of us?

Also, (CCC 1310). “To receive Confirmation one must be in a state of grace. One should receive the sacrament of Penance in order to be cleansed for the gift of the Holy Spirit.” As a youngster fighting ragging hormones I was occasionally put into the position of not being able to receive communion (and I attended mass at least twice a week (daily during lent)) because of the dreaded mortal sin of teenage boys. There is rarely a big crowd at daily mass, and it is obvious when someone fails to receive communion and so a source of horrible mortification (especially when you happen to be the alter boy!!). And now I find that priests said mass and received communion after having raped little children ((they couldn’t possible have confessed their sins before their next daily mass) and if so, why were they allowed by their confessor to continue priestly duties rather than undergoing the obvious penance? ) How could the confessors and the hierarchy allow pedophile priests to continue with the sacraments when it is impossible they were in the state of grace??? I am convinced the doctrine of the above reference isn’t held to be inviolable.

The biggest problem aside from the evil deeds is the coverup. Clean house ans quit making excuses. No one. the media or anyone else is destroying the CC. It is being destroued within with the evil deeds. cover ups and lies.

There are many threads under Catholic News addressing the Pope’s letter where you can carry on that discussion.

This thread posed the question:

What are some ways, I wonder, that we could get the Catholics of the USA not only motivated in their Faith, but educated so that when this libel and slander appears in the news we as Catholics can turn it aside with the truth?

Three news stories were noted:

One was about the nuns who support the health care bill against the will of the bishops. Another involves how a priest in France is against the celibacy rule because he had a mistress for years and was eventually “forced” to choose his mistress over his vocation. The last one is a flimsy one about how the German church is now full of scandal and it is all the Pope’s fault somehow

So long as the posts here discuss how Catholics of the USA can become educated in order to address news portrayed in this manner with the truth of the matter the thread will remain open. If the posts drift into debate about the news stories themselves it will be closed.

I regularly forward stuff to the Catholic League, but they seem to be very selective in what they fight against. In most cases, they are happy to to attack the big targets such as the NY Times, Viacom, Showtime, South Park, etc. But when a two-bit website like Fark allows people to slander the Pope, anti-Catholic hate speech, and post blasphemous imagery of Christ,in violation of that website’s own terms of service, the League is silent.

In contrast, when complaints about that site have been made to Jewish and Islamic ant-defamation groups, the result has been removal of such posts. I know this for a fact because I have had responses forwarded to me by the groups I’ve complained to.

The Catholic League needs to fight anti-Catholicism on all levels and at the grassroots or the truth will never be heard

God bless

Tony

i agree that any molestation is evil & cannot be tolerated! We must continue to work to prevent future incidents, not by taking the easy way out & abandoning the Church & the innocent children in the Church today

In a later post you said; “So you ask, certain priests or all priests. The answer is all priests.” WRONG! While a small minority of priests are accused of molestation, the vast majority are not!

When i was young, i thought that Doctors were never wrong. Despite lengthy training & education, they can make mistakes or even do immoral things to patients or just to protect themselves.

Priests are human beings, with all the shortcomings, sins & failures of other human beings.

Using your logic, because 11 of the 12 Apostles abandoned, denied or even betrayed Jesus, then we should all leave the Catholic Church that Jesus founded because believing in Jesus in false???

**If you honestly leave the Church because of the failings of it’s members, who are all weak sinners, then you had better leave every other organization you belong to, including your family & marriage as well!
**
**Often people use the excuse that ‘priests have sinned’ or that ‘some Catholics are ignorant of their Faith or rude’, etc… as an easy way to avoid the difficult Truth that Jesus Christ called us to live!

Jesus taught us; “Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Mt 9:13) **

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei,Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

To get back on track.

What can we do to evangelize the faithful against slander in the media?
I think we can rally behind our understanding of what priests should be and hold them up to that standard. I do believe that the Enemy is attacking our priests as well as our families in order to undermine the Gospel. We must bolster our fortifications, learning about our faith and praying constantly for defense. We must also actively work in our parishes to prevent abuse from taking place and make it easier to spot.

Having rules regarding when an adult is allowed to be left alone with a child, for example, is a good start. Take away the opportunity, and the crime may not occur.

Also we should inculcate stronger ties between the lay and the clergy - this doesn’t just mean sitting and talking with them at parish meetings, but really on a personal basis. Let’s have our priests over for dinner, let’s include them in family life. I think the Enemy takes advantage of this cold distance we have from our priests, which leaves many of them in a lonely and vulnerable position. Could the priest in France have resisted the temptation to have a mistress if he a regular group of friends to talk with and spend time with? I’m not saying this will prevent pederasty but it will certainly indicate early on whether there is something up with a certain priest, or rather may encourage him to fight the temptations that he feels.

I don’t like it any more than you do. But…

What’s new about this? The Scribes and Pharisees were set against Jesus from day one. I don’t see much hope at this point, and God save us if the Church ever decides it wants to be ‘popular.’

Can you clarify please? What exactly is you position now regarding priests, who are, and always have been, only human?

And are you aware that some pedophile priests were deliberately seeded into the Church by her enemies?

I should be able to find some links to articles regarding that fact.

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