Civil Disobedience: Blocking Abortion Clinics

What are the moral implications of civil disobedience by blocking abortion clinics or otherwise preventing abortionists from going to “work?”

I’m not talking about violence, but obstruction. It is illegal, but is it immoral, or even a moral obligation?

If it were illegal to stand in the way of a murderer and his victim, would that make it immoral? Obviously it is not immoral to attempt to stop an abortionist from performing his “work”.

It is a moral obligation for us to fight abortion however we can, but along with this is to do it the most effectively. If Catholics all went out and physically restrained abortionists, not only would we all be imprisoned, but the backlash from the pro-abortion community would set back the pro-life movement for years.

We ought to start with obstructing their funding, some of which (much of which?) comes from our own tax dollars.

[quote=The Barrister]We ought to start with obstructing their funding, some of which (much of which?) comes from our own tax dollars.
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I agree. We should also be aware of the charities we support. For instance, the United Way and probably others like it, supports planned parenthood. If we withhold support for “charities” such as these; and make our reasons known, this could dry up another source of the abortion industry’s support.

**I say BLOCK THE CLINICS!!! Babies do not die that day and women who have to schedule another day for their abortion usually do not come back(per the last statistics I’ve heard). That dries up funding right there. Now, there are some who don’t agree with me, and that’s ok. I don’t believe that this is the ONLY way or that everyone should do it. But much prayer is required before anyone decides to do this. **


The police and/or security service are always just a phone call away.

If you are really committed to reversing this trend focus your energy on education as well as ministries that provide support for women experiencing unintended or crisis pregnancies. A well-informed woman who knows she has options other than abortion might just make a better CHOICE. And when she has a friend who comes to her seeking advice because she is in a similar situation…she might counsel her friend to exercise her CHOICE and avoid an abortion…and when that child she gave birth to grows up and finds herself with an unintended pregnancy, her mother can honestly advise her of the options and how she never regretted the CHOICE that she made…and so on, and so on…

Dr. Colossus:

If you’re serious about doing this, and willing to “Pay the Price” in terms of getting an arrest record, what you’re talking about can be done.

Before my walk down the “Road to Jericco”, I knew some of the people from the Catholic Worker Society. One of their specialties was “NON-VIOLENT CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE”.

[quote=Dr. Colossus]If it were illegal to stand in the way of a murderer and his victim, would that make it immoral? Obviously it is not immoral to attempt to stop an abortionist from performing his “work”.
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If you’re going to do this, you have to be organized and HAVE NUMBERS! IOW, 2 or 3 people trying to walk into a clinic just isn’t going to do it. You will need 60 to 80 who can go in WAVES of 15 to 20 REPLACING those inside the clinic AS THEY GET ARRESTED.

Please understand, THIS IS ILLEGAL, and will give ALL PARTICIPANTS ARREST RECORDS! It’s doable, but THE FEDS MAY decide to MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF US (esp. those who are leading and organizing the protests) and SEND US TO FEDERAL PENITENTIARY!

So, think LONG and HARD about whether this is the only option we have left…

Because, I need your help on something else…

[quote=Dr. Colossus]It is a moral obligation for us to fight abortion however we can, but along with this is to do it the most effectively. If Catholics all went out and physically restrained abortionists, not only would we all be imprisoned, but the backlash from the pro-abortion community would set back the pro-life movement for years.
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As most of you know, Senate DEMOCRATS have FILIBUSTERED PRO-LIFE JUDICIAL NOMINEES they are afraid will not support ROE V. WADE (That’s the decision forcing us to consider the above). This has been going on since 2001, and the FILIBUSTER is CONTRARY to the DEMOCRAT’ own PROMISE given in 2001 on NATIONAL TV (They promised PROMPT UP or DOWN Votes for ALL Judicial Nominees who received “Well Qualified” Ratings from the ABA - 8 of the 11 NOMINEES being FILIBUSTERED by the DEMOCRATS received THAT RANKING!)

Dr. Frist has decided to “Call the Question”, or invoke the “Constitutional/Nuclear Option” TOMORROW! He’s going to bring ONE of the LONG-SUFFERING PRO-LIFE NOMINEES to the Senate Floor TOMMORROW MORNING, and he will Move to Amend the Rules for Cloiture in the AFTERNOON.

I, and several others including Priests for Life, an asking for one final batck of e-mails to be sent to the SENATE.

GO HERE FOR THE DETAILS:

End Pro-Abortion Litmus Test
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=50594

and See my Posts #15, 20, 40 & 49:

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=608992&postcount=15

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=613154&postcount=20

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=632350&postcount=40

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=636704&postcount=49

The NOMINEES who are being FILIBUSTERED by the DEMOCRATS are PEOPLE OF FAITH who take their religion seriously (MOST ARE CATHOLICS). The DEMOCRATS are being controlled by a PRO-ABORTION LOBBYING GROUP, which doesn’t represent RANK and FILE Democratic Party Members (Like Myself). This PRO-DEATH LOBBYING GROUP controls the purse strings and donates LOTS of money, so they can “Call the tune”.

The REPBLICANS are the ones trying to break tyhe FILIBUSTER. They just have some “Wobbly members” who need to be reminded whose NOMINEES they are.

If we can break this FILIBUSTER, we can pretty much lay ROE V. WADE to rest sometine in the near future.

If we can’t, the “NON-VIOLENT CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE” may be the only option left, and those who lead the “sit-ins” will most definitely be sent to FEDERAL PENITENTIARY!

Please View the Thread I LINKED and send out those LAST MINUTE E-MAILS!

Thank you! and May God richly bless those who act to save His Little Ones!
Michael

Island Oak:

I agree with you completely if the Good Guys (that’s us) only have a couple a people to send into the Clinic. Then the propects of actually disrupting the procedings inside the DEATH-FACTORY, let alone closing it down, are just about NON-EXISTENT!

However, the Catholic Worker Society, Sojourners and other similar groups that I’ve been in contact with during my life HAVE done SUCCESSFUL CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE, and IT CAN BE DONE! It’s just that I’m not sure that the people here have any idea what the COST IS in terms of Criminal Record and Employment.

Because of that cost, I’d much rather look at alternatives. BEFORE COMMITTING ACTS OF CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.

[quote=Island Oak]The police and/or security service are always just a phone call away.

If you are really committed to reversing this trend focus your energy on education as well as ministries that provide support for women experiencing unintended or crisis pregnancies. A well-informed woman who knows she has options other than abortion might just make a better CHOICE. And when she has a friend who comes to her seeking advice because she is in a similar situation…she might counsel her friend to exercise her CHOICE and avoid an abortion…and when that child she gave birth to grows up and finds herself with an unintended pregnancy, her mother can honestly advise her of the options and how she never regretted the CHOICE that she made…and so on, and so on…
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One alternative that I’ve been pusjhing is BREAKING THE FILIBUSTER of PRO-LIFE JUDICIAL NOMINEES! You wouldn’t realize how afraid the PRO-DEATH GROUPS are about the prospects of ROVE V. WADE being OVERTURNED unless you knew who was behind the PERSISTANT, RIGID & ENERGETIC FILIBUSTER of Presedent Bush’s Judicial Nominees.

Read this post, and you’ll see what I mean - I DID listen to the INTERVIEW on the air, so this is what they said!

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=613154&postcount=20

I would like to be like you and trust the woman’s “INFORMED CHOICE”, but I’m pretty sure that we can’t. Teenagers AREN’T taught that PRE-BORN Babies are actually BABIES! They’re NOT taught that EACH Human Life HAS INTRINSIC VALUE! and, They’re NOT taught that actions have consequences!

So, how are we to counteract THIS lifetime of false teaching? and, Where you you want us to do this CORRECTIVE teaching, since you don’t want us to close the DEATH FACTORY DOWN or SUSPEND ITS OPERATIONS?

I’m not nearly as sanguine as you are, because when it comes to ABORTION, when women choose WRONGLY, INNOCENT CHILDREN DIE!

And, as Dr. Colossus states, I do have a MORAL obligation to do whatever MORAL MEANS are needed to do this.

That’s why I’m pushing the E-MAIL campaign so hard. If I can help OVERTURN ROE V. WADE, I WON’T HAVE TO GO INTO A CLINIC AND GET ARRESTED.

The Germans were able to slaughter so many Jews in WW II because so many cooperated, and so many others just refused to interfere

FYI, The Nazis slaughtered 18 Million total in the DEATH CAMPS and by other means. We’ve managed to slaughter 45 million+ so far.

Have you seen the footage of the German Cities after WW II? Have you ever wondered why the Germans were the only ones who had to fight to the BITTER END? Have you ever wondered why ONLY GERMANY was split in half?

Look at the totals, and remember that the BABIES we’re slaughtering are every bit as human as the JEWS, LATVIANS, SERBS, GYPSIES, CATHOLICS, JW’s and others the NAZIS slaughtered… Look at the German cities.

How angry do you think God is with us?

May God have mercy on us, and may He bless those who act to save His Little Ones.

Michael

Are there other ways to keep abortionists out of their clinics? What about covering their car with flyers? What about parking our cars around their cars so they can’t move? These are lesser offenses that probably wouldn’t land one in federal prison, but would at least delay an abortionist so that he won’t perform as many murders that day. Has this ever been tried?

I have read testimony from a former abortionist who said he wished more people would picket outside clinics. He said on the days that protesters were outside his clinic, he’d slow down and perform less abortions that day. None is better than less, but less is better than more.

[quote=MamaGeek]Are there other ways to keep abortionists out of their clinics? What about covering their car with flyers? What about parking our cars around their cars so they can’t move? These are lesser offenses that probably wouldn’t land one in federal prison, but would at least delay an abortionist so that he won’t perform as many murders that day. Has this ever been tried?

I have read testimony from a former abortionist who said he wished more people would picket outside clinics. He said on the days that protesters were outside his clinic, he’d slow down and perform less abortions that day. None is better than less, but less is better than more.
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Under the F.A.C.E. Act, yes this could land you in federal prison.

[quote=MamaGeek]What are the moral implications of civil disobedience by blocking abortion clinics or otherwise preventing abortionists from going to “work?”

I’m not talking about violence, but obstruction. It is illegal, but is it immoral, or even a moral obligation?
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I think there could be a number of implications. If you have a family/young children, a prison term and record could impact them in a very harmful way. The actions could harm the pro-life movement in general by causing a negative backlash in the media, further restrictive legislation, etc.

The F.A.C.E. Act limits this sort of activity. Ask Joe Scheidler of Pro-Life Action League what the cost of this type of disobedience is. His 20 year court fight that has gone all the way to the Supreme Court is not over yet (and he did this type of protesting BEFORE the F.A.C.E. act made it illegal). He is out lots of money, and at one point faced federal racketeering charges.

Yikes! Well, thank you for that information. I certainly DO NOT want to commit any federal crimes. I didn’t realize that such actions were, and I will seek other, LEGAL means of fighting abortion, such as peaceful picketing, prayer, fasting, financial contributions, and contacting my representatives.

I do know what some of the ramifications are because I have done it-twice. I sat in front of an abortion clinic in two different states. The cops in one of the places I sat in at were horrible. We ended up being in jail a wee bit longer than we were supposed to be and I got in a little bit of trouble at school.
I knew someone who was in jail for quite a while. I also met Joan Andrews. Now there’s a woman who sacrificed quite alot for the pre-born. I admire her.
As I said in a previous post, this is not for everyone. Much prayer is required. But, if God calls you to do it despite the legal ramifications, you must do it. Look, the apostles disobeyed the Jewish authorities and the Roman authorities. They ended up dead. But look at our faith. If they hadn’t been willing to sacrifice everything, where would we be today?

In the Gospel of life, John Paul II makes it clear that we have absolutely no moral obligation to obey laws that support and promote legal abortion because they conflict with natural law.
Nonviolent rescuing is a moral and saintly thing to do.

It is not for everyone though. God may be calling some of us to use our gifts and talents in other ways rather than sitting in a jail cell for violating FACE. It’s a matter of prudential judgement, conscience and prayer.

[quote=Traditional Ang]Island Oak:

…I would like to be like you and trust the woman’s “INFORMED CHOICE”, but I’m pretty sure that we can’t. Teenagers AREN’T taught that PRE-BORN Babies are actually BABIES! They’re NOT taught that EACH Human Life HAS INTRINSIC VALUE! and, They’re NOT taught that actions have consequences!
[/quote]

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your perspective, someone much wiser than me, our own Heavenly Father, endowed us with free will. He gave us the power to choose our own course, to stray from him, sin, and even kill. We cannot presume we can take the god-given free will away from anyone through blockades, barricades or political action. Do you really believe abortion will end merely because it’s outlawed? I certainly don’t. Thus, the best we can hope to do is actively teach, model and inform so that when it comes down to making a choice, the best one is made.

[quote=]So, how are we to counteract THIS lifetime of false teaching? and, Where you you want us to do this CORRECTIVE teaching, since you don’t want us to close the DEATH FACTORY DOWN or SUSPEND ITS OPERATIONS?

I’m not nearly as sanguine as you are, because when it comes to ABORTION, when women choose WRONGLY, INNOCENT CHILDREN DIE!
[/quote]

Yes they do. And hopefully that realization will motivate you to get the truth out since so many are engaged in clouding or obscuring the facts. There are literally dozens of pro-life organizations out there: Project Rachel ministers to post-abortive women who are suffering spiritually from their decision; Feminists for Life is a secular organizations that opposes abortion as destructive to women’s physical and emotional health; Priests for Life is a Catholic anti-abortion/euthenasia ministry that has become very active in public demonstrations and education. These are only 3–pick one and be part of educating those who may never have had the benefit of really knowing what’s at stake and how much power rests in each individual choice we make.

Island Oak, obviously we need to be out there whether it is legal or not, teaching and helping pregnant and vulnerable women (and young men for that matter).

But, abortion would drop SIGNIFICANTLY, and better yet our tax money would stop going to those butchers, were it illegal.

Think about cigarrettes for a minute. I know a lot more people that smoke them than that do pot. But if pot were legal and tabacco was not, it would be the other way around.

[quote=MamaGeek]Yikes! Well, thank you for that information. I certainly DO NOT want to commit any federal crimes. I didn’t realize that such actions were, and I will seek other, LEGAL means of fighting abortion, such as peaceful picketing, prayer, fasting, financial contributions, and contacting my representatives.
[/quote]

Didn’t mean to scare you!

There are LEGAL ways to picket. Contact a local pro-life group. They will be versed in the FACE Act, your state legislation, city ordinances, etc. They can also train you in effective sidewalk counseling techniques. I have been praying and sidewalk counseling outside of Planned Parenthood for several years. There certainly are legal things you can do.

Make sure you know the law, and don’t let the pro-aborts intimidate you.

I don’t disagree the numbers would probably drop if it were outlawed, but expect to see a corresponding increase in the number of women killed, maimed or made sterile by illegal practitioners in the process. We will NEVER see abortion outlawed until the population is educated about what abortion is and does to both mother and child. It will NEVER be eliminated from society as long as people are ignorant not only about abortion itself, but about morality, self-discipline and respect for life. We will never see perfect respect for life here on earth, but until more people are taught that they can master their hormones, instead of falling victim to them, this cycle will continue as it has for thousands of years. Education, not more laws, is the only hope for real change.

I agree education is important, but making it illegal is still a good goal.

Check this out:

abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_27.asp

If that doesn’t answer your questions, pm me and I will go into more detail about what I have found out through extensive research.

[quote=1ke] Ask Joe Scheidler of Pro-Life Action League what the cost of this type of disobedience is. His 20 year court fight that has gone all the way to the Supreme Court is not over yet (and he did this type of protesting BEFORE the F.A.C.E. act made it illegal). He is out lots of money, and at one point faced federal racketeering charges.
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He was actually convicted of the RICO charges. For more information, go to the Pro Life Action League website prolifeaction.org/ and look for the button on NOW v. Scheidler. What he has been through is an absolute crime. It should be on network news every week, yet you only get a few minutes when he won his Supreme Court appeal. Even after winning at the Supreme Court, it is still not over. Their website has a lot of proactive things to do to fight abortions at the clinics, including sidewalk counseling.

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